"The Wire" on HBO

And maybe it's a bit of a stretch to compare it to the rise of fascism - but there's definitely an exploration of what happens when people begin to let the ends justify the means going on in The Wire, especially in Season 5 Carcetti and McNulty plotlines.

But that's probably a lot more about Bush-era USA than the rise of Fascism.

i just think it's a meaningless parallel -- literally no idea what you could even mean by it. the show is about aspects of contemporary reality. the dockworkers are relics of a phase of american history, but nothing as grand as "early capitalism". they're part of pre-1970s industrial america (corporatist?) and are trying to cling on to the rights they had back then.

on how marlo's rise parallels fascism -- again, what?

xpost

I guess the connections to Fascism that I was thinking of were:

the demand for unquestioning loyalty (e.g. Michael not allowed to question decisions, the guy getting killed for possibly calling Marlo a "cocksucker")
the lack of respect for tradition/history and basic human dignity (the fact that the bodies are put in boarded up houses and not allowed traditional funereal rites)
ruthlessness

that's just off the top of my head

you have avon's cookouts and the importance of family (as limned in the very first episode), alongside the union "brothers" - both of these kinds of organization feel like - and are portrayed as - remnants of another era in contrast with everybody else (especially the police dept which is a kind of unionless dystopia where management ramrods everyone)

the lack of respect for tradition/history

in theory, the fascists were all about this.

ruthlessness is usually a capitalist thing -- a lot of fascist rhetoric was against new-model big-business capitalism. modern fascists would decry the rise of superstores pushing out local small shops.

xpost

agree with tracer -- obviously the show contrasts how these groups work. i just don't see (the need for) unhelpful historical parallels.

I guess I was thinking about Italian futurism that supported the rise of fascism initially when I thought about the lack of respect for tradition/history. And it isn't like Marlo is a pure capitalist - he wants his corners, just like Avon did. He valued the traditional notions of territory, and the warrior/soldier mentality.

no-one is a pure capitalist! as i say, there will always be territory, and always the need to defend it. idk, i think you're overthinking it tbqh. there was some odd dialectic in fascism between futurism and invented-traditionalism, but i think its appeal rested quite heavily on the latter -- and this is all a long long way from 'the wire' on HBO.

i do think some gangster fiction does tell us how power operates -- 'the godfather' especially -- in a thomas hobbes kind of way. not really feelin these direct analogies tho.

Well, Stringer sorta tries to operate purely on capitalist principles. Maybe fascism is the wrong analogy to draw with Marlo's operation, but it is different from that of Avon, Stringer, and Prop Joe. When I read that essay, I just wanted it to speak to the rise of Marlo, or how the Greeks could survive/function operating on monetarist principles (again the language of the essay, not necessarily mine), whereas Stringer couldn't.

marlo should have just said "it is what it is"

was this posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I-jYV1KHiw&feature=player_embedded

wth was that drink?! and i thought he was about to order a natty boh

she has the greatest laugh...also half waiting for Chris to come along & pop Tony in the back of the head.

yeah bourdain... your hair look real good

have you guys seen the crappy news?

probably not a hoax :(

discussed on treme thread btw

oh wow - i'd never even noticed that thread!

Watching season 3, and there is mention of hotspots for drug traffic, one of which is North and Pulaski, so I pulled it up:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=north+and+pulaski+baltimore&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=W+North+Ave+%26+N+Pulaski+St,+Baltimore,+MD+21217&gl=us&ei=qKDCS4rMJMiAnwezm-SuCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA

?

if you do street view does it become the cornerstore where spoiler they tried to frame omar at?

no

Do I need to get hold of the Homicide: Life on the Streets and The Corner DVDs as a huge Wire fan? As much as I loved watching multiple times in 2009, I do feel like I'm kind of *over* it though, and ready to explore other things.

I'd rent them, not buy them.

Better to get Homicide: A Year On The Killing Streets (Simon's book on which the tv show is based) instead (from the library, natch).

book rules

what a fool I am, I paid for both it and the Corner from a bookshop

I got the Corner from the library but ooooooh I hate it when writers transcript/write in slang. preventing me from reading a lot of good books I think (richard price's clockers is another example.)

HA! me too.

clockers, i mean. couldn't read it.

well that and i have problems with fiction about crime? not sure. i liked homicide though.

Clockers was great, but I had trouble with the written slang in the Pelecanos book I read.

btw has anyone watched Intelligence? netflix suggested it to fans of The Wire. not really seeing a lot of parallel right now, other than being pretty well written and about law enforcement surveillance.

I've only read one Pelecanos, but had so little trouble with it that I went and bought three more afterwards

i read pelecanos for sentimental reasons and cringe quite a bit tbh, and for more reasons than dialogue. like his work on the wire though. clockers is another league; price's ear's a treasure.

Do I need to get hold of the Homicide: Life on the Streets and The Corner DVDs as a huge Wire fan? As much as I loved watching multiple times in 2009, I do feel like I'm kind of *over* it though, and ready to explore other things.

― Davek (davek_00), Monday, April 12, 2010 9:36 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

'corner' is kind of depressing/worthy... didn't like it

'homicide' -- early seasons are aight but imo its rep is overinflated. the ensemble is great, and it has some indelible characters, but most of the crimes are standard-ish tv show stuff. very little of it is about the drug wars etc.

d simon's book is dope tho

yeah, I'm currently going through homicide (the show) and have to agree with this. just got through what I'm hoping is the last of a couple eps in a row of "killer of the week" type scenarios. I'm enjoying it but the wire is in a totally different league.

still, I imagine it was pretty unique for its time and the cast is great.

as an aside, man, it is so 90s. the music montages (candlebox! counting crows!), the shaky cam, the editing in general, gritty serial killer plots.

the book is v. much worth a read.

A lot of hype about Homicide is that you have to place it in its context, when the show was on there weren't that many shows on the air that actually was doing these procedurals with ongoing character development. Like what did you have, Hill Street Blues and the various Star Trek series? It was great for the time but it doesn't hold up that well. Lotta good TV actors popped up in it, though.

The Corner is depressing, but what do you expect, it's actually based on real people and events. It's kind of like a beta version of The Wire that focuses only on one family, I'd say it's worth it.

homicide worth it for the performances alone, it's pretty cheap these days too

Ah thank you for the recommendations folks. Was curious to ask because at my university a professor did this fantastic talk on The Wire, mostly focusing on the way each group of characters uses media and technology. She said she adored Homicide too, this was the issue. What can I say, I am impressionable. I think I'm going to give Battlestar a spin next though.

I got the Corner from the library but ooooooh I hate it when writers transcript/write in slang.

― fuck in rainbows, ☔ (dyao), Monday, April 12, 2010 7:55 PM

do u mean the way in which they transcribe slang or just all writing in slang in general

just in general I guess

i don't see how it can be avoided

yeah, maybe I would like these books better if they were audiobooks voiced by actors from the wire

the fakeness of it is usually distracting to me

sort of inherent fakeness though

damn totally disappointed to find out the mcnulty actor was british :(

why

don't tell him about the stringer actor

i think i was disappointed too iirc just cause the dude seemed like this archetypical american badass and to find out he was the creation of a brit makes him seem even more fictional and further removed from the reality you'd hope a real mcnulty-on-his-good-days style dude might inhabit

aw i don't really see why that would make you like the character less, it's acting

mcnulty was always one of the cornier/more obviously written characters for me anyway so :-/