Vampire Weekend; Arctic Monkeys of 2008?

(sorry, I just wanted to say that)

"rhythmically speaking, rock is pretty low on the totem poll of innovative arts"

unless 'rock' includes mathrock, metalcore, prog, zeuhl, etc.

Oh, I thought that was a VW lyric!

I said in my own review that the drumming doesn't matter so much with this band: they care more about shaping an electro/acoustic sound, in which live percussion may or may not play a part.

I read something which implied "White Sky" was the only track using a drum machine on the new album, which surprised me. The rhythms sound fine to me. They're an attraction, even.

funny thing is, while i think there's a rushed, swing-reducing, slapdash quality to the grooves compared to 80s new wave acts like police/heads/beat/etc (tipsy's "my problem with the hooks and grooves and appropriations is mostly that (like the vocals and lyrics) they just seem awfully glib" resonates), one that effects even my favorite tracks - the drummer seems totally off when he comes in at the end of "oxford comma," I don't hate this band. One of the most popular (both here and commercially) sophisto-pop bands not too long ago was Fall Out Boy, and I think you can make a much better case for these guys actually having some wit. But the irony of the "there's no reason to find these guys' cultural approprations offensive" argument is that, by the same tack, you could ask why we're supposed to find it so interesting. And if you don't thrill to it, you're left with a sloppy, slightly updated take on Sting Costello shit.

^^^^ This is circular and unpersuasive.

The people who like VW aren't saying that the band's "cultural appropriations" are the only reason to like the band.

You're implying that the choice is between VW being borderline-offensive and VW being bland.

But lots of music is neither borderline-offensive nor bad.

I dunno that I'm really offering a choice - I'm saying that when you take out the part of VW that risks offense (an act I really don't think is a bad thing in bands) you've got slapdash new wave

and slapdash new wave ain't that bad! i think its the just the drudge siren hype around these guys that forces everybody to take sides

But lots of music is neither borderline-offensive nor bad.

VW hit the sour spot of making music that is both

i mean the borderline offensive stuff is a red herring, i guess: with more substantial sounds or better hooks or better singing or just, you know, better everything, it wouldn't matter a jot; but since they provide nothing worthwhile elsewhere it magnifies the annoying cultural appropriation stuff

i'm dissatisfied using adjectives like "slapdash" to describe weekend's sound. They obviously put a lot of care and thought into arrangements, esp on the new album, but the performances just feel hurried and off in a way that makes their accomplishments more theoretical and less satisfying to listen to compared to the chops-havin' british reggae fans of yore.

i'll be as harsh on bad drumming as anybody and i see where you guys are coming from on that point, but i don't know how constructive it is to compare them to really chops-y bands from 20 years ago. there's something much smaller-scale and homemade about their music because, at the end of the day, as i've said 5,000 times, they're an indie pop band.

yeah, i mean, they're contemporary indie pop, it pretty much goes w/o saying they don't have half the chops of their 70s/80s equivalents, and one reason i rarely write or post about those kinds of bands is i'd just harp on that point over and over myself

i dunno about "constructive" (though, if they're listening, it does suggest a way they could improve, however sardonically the critique is offered) but I think it's a valid criticism to explain why these guys don't satisfy as a band with a #1 album and critical raves, whether or not they have the saving grace of amateurity implied by "indie-pop"

yeah i just think it changes the starting point from "why don't they GROOVE like the police" or something to "they fit within this musical tradition which may or may not be for you"

i mean i'll definitely agree that there is a slightness to their music that could make the #1 and a lot of the positive press tough to swallow, but these are strange times we live in

yeah i mean it's worth bringing up, at least once. i wonder if the band would be really appreciative of a negative review that talked just about their performances and said nothing about the cultural subtext. (xpost)

it would lead to the tragic demise of the phish-loving drummer and who would want to be responsible for that

these are strange times we live in

I really do think a lot of the hype factor comes from the lack of competition they have in the Sting Costello smarty-pop sweepstakes (plus they're Duran cute enough for MTV). I mean, again, Fall Out Boy.

didn't the Shins just fire their drummer for sucking? could start a new trend.

if all these bands start bringing in Kenny Aronoff maybe Chuck Eddy can begin to respect indie rock

hey, The National have a decent drummer. Or VW can ask the old dude from Interpol to moonlight.

i would lol if indie bands started showing up at gigs with some weird old fat session drummer

this is going to be the 2nd time this week that I reference the failed Rainn Wilson vehicle The Rocker

still kind of convinced the national are getting larry mullen in the studio for their albums

getting a session dude sure worked for these guys, didn't it?

http://lyricsmusic.name/img/posters/134/RS711.jpg

(god, what a buttnasty cover)

haha wow

Besides writing catchy drum parts, I don't understand why EVERYONE seems to think The National drummer is so incredible.

i dont really think hes incredible i think he just listens to a lot of u2

Never said he was incredible, but he keeps me awake.

I dunno - "Late night with Dave Pirner" sound scarier.

i think the thing with the nat'l drummer is everyone was like waaaaah borring indie music and then they were in that dumb sf-j article. the counterpoint to that was hey actually this guy's a pretty good drummer who does interesting parts which means he's well on his way to being overrated.

indie rock does have some great drummers though, like Glenn Kotche from Wilco

lol

hey look it's Mr. Que

indie rock has some great drum machines, like the one The xx use.

Steve Gadd could whip these boys into shape

still reeling at RS deciding a Silence Of The Lambs pinwheel is the way to sell "late nights with dave pirner"

Witty headline: "Scott Weiland busted: Bad Brains, Morphine, Bjork."

fwiw, it's not just the "chops" of the rhythm section that i think is off with vw, it's their whole rhythmic approach -- their relationship to rhythm, including the way it's mixed in their songs, which manages to seem both kind of shy and kind of bored at the same time. like, they're afraid to really push anything, but also maintaining a certain amount of indie distance from it all. (or what signifies as "indie distance" to me.) which is a big difference between them and talking heads or paul simon or whatever other influences you want to cite. i still think the easiest way to hear this is to contrast the original "cape cod" with the very best's mix of it -- the rhythm on the very best track is just amped way up, and solidifies the groove that the original song just sort of waves at. a lot of vw's stuff feels like toe-tapping music to me, while the stuff they're drawing on is ass-shaking music.

xpost:
i'm not much of a wilco fan, but glenn kotche really does have a pretty serious rep as a drummer. (check out video here.

glenn kotche is a great rock drummer for sure

a lot of vw's stuff feels like toe-tapping music to me, while the stuff they're drawing on is ass-shaking music.

I don't like vw but I also don't see any reason why 'ass-shaking music' is on a higher plane than 'toe-tapping music'.

En pointe music

xp yeah it's a lame point and basically a personalized take on the boring "it just makes me want to listen to their influences, not them" trope

I don't think musicians have ever had a bigger duty to add to do something interesting with their influences than they do right now, though. If you have a cool record collection but can't make a record that communicates much more than that you have a cool record collection, you're better off just being a blogger or something.

that seems like a really weird expectation for how "influence" works in music but ok.

sorry, just jumping on a soapbox

it's cool and i'd be happy to discuss, like, why people form bands and write songs but maybe not on this thread.

It seems strange to criticise VW for not being ass-shaking just because they take certain African elements. It annoys me when people compare them to afrobeat rather than highlife - they're interested in African music's melodies, not its groove. And they're obviously playing to their strengths, ie their brilliant arranger and melody-writer rather than their so-so drummer. It doesn't make sense to mention the African influences without also acknowledging the ultra-WASPy string quartet that's just as important on several tracks. I like the uptightness, the lack of abandon, the cultural distance, which seems more honest to me than if they tried to be Afrika 70.