Is ADHD a real disorder?

a big dog in a small apartment is only a problem if the dog is hyperactive. A merely inattentive big dog is fine in a small apartment.

-- Beth Parker, Tuesday, August 7, 2007 9:45 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Which, strangely enough, kind of explains why I don't think my parents and teachers would have thought I was ADD - I was never hyperactive, I just couldn't concentrate. When I daydreamed all the time it was just "cute" (at least until middle school), and I often slid by on my ability to bullshit.

I have always slid by on my ability to bullshit. I still do. It's my #1 coping skill. I have the more common type of ADHD -- the "combined," so I'm both inattentive and v v jittery. I can spend a whole day at work unable to either get much work done or keep my leg still. I need medication pretty badly, actually, before I get fired or self-medicate myself into an alcohol coma or both. :(

So in answer to the thread question: yes. And it's a big problem.

lol i was reading ur post and doing my leg tapping thing and then i kept reading and then i stopped leg tapping.

That another thing, actually -- ADHD and alcoholism were made for each other. It calms the nerves, focuses the mind for about 5 minutes (which is more than you've been able to focus all day), and plays right into that whole "poor impulse control" aspect of ADHD.

i hate when u have a drink thinking u can relax to get some work done but then u just pass out

i wonder if it is possible to have environment- and stress-induced ADD? e.g. it builds up and then unleashes on system? like a virus coming in and out of remission

i do think all the categorizing and assigning of disorders to things has possibly gone too far, but at the same time, naming something (not nec in health/medicine but in world in general) is a way to acknowledge and tackle it. not so into the rampant prescription of drugs, however.

i wonder if it is possible to have environment- and stress-induced ADD?

It's possible to have anxiety disorders, but adult add is generally something you have as a child and never grow out of. Most add people will tell you that they can't ever remember a time when they WERE able to relax and focus.

god have mercy on every teacher i ever had

I disagree with this. There is such a thing as adult onset ADD. I've been treated for such although a psych told me that symptoms for ADD were pretty indistinguishable from bipolar symptoms so there was no point in making an extra diagnosis.

I had absolutely no trouble with concentration and focus before the age of about 24.

Yeah, that's me - although I do get that "hyperfocus" thing ADD people are supposed to get sometimes. (xpost)

I used to keep myself at the office way longer than I had to be because it was so hard for me to finish work efficiently - there's not much of another explanation for that kind of procrastination. (now I have a flexible job that's partly based at home - which is even worse in a way, but no one really notices how long it takes me to do things.)

(by yeah that's me, I mean I had trouble focusing early on - in elementary school I was always known for daydreaming)

well, if not full blown caused ADD, there definitely seems to be external factors that can exacerbate the symptons, and stress & a stressful environment will do that.

Also, my hyperfocus/ADD bits manifests itself in such a way to feed my videogame addiction. I can spend way too much time getting involved in a game world if it's rich enough, and play long enough in a session to where I know i'm grinding at the end, but I can't break away due to the brain candy/low-level nervous stimulation by the game. It's something like where I'd have times that I couldn't wait to get home to dive back into some world(Oblivion, Vice City, San Andreas, etc) that was far more richly detailed and stimulating than my boring dayjob. The only non-game behaviour I can remember, where I spent all my evenings consuming some media or narrative, was when I was shotgunning entire seasons of BSG.

I keep seeing "hyperfocus" and thinking "hyperfuckus."

What are the biggest drawbacks to ritalin, assuming non-abuse? Is it dependency forming? Does it wear off after a while, moving you to stronger drugs? I know about the risk of heart palpitations and all that.

probably would make more sense to ask a doctor instead of ilx.

Most doctors haven't actually been on the meds they prescribe, and are totally unaware of a lot of their negative/side effects.

so yeah, nevermind me, ask a bunch of non-expert non-professionals!

I wish Nowell would check back in.

uh, I did talk to a doctor, who suggested ritalin and told me about the side-effects. But I would like to hear about it from people who have actually taken it.

a doctor most likely could've answered those questions.

Maybe ask him about something like Strattera? It's not a stimulant so doesn't have a lot of the negative side-effects that Ritalin does. My brother was on ritalin when he was younger. I'll shoot him an email and see if he has anything to share.

And yes while no doctor has ever taken every single medicine for every ailment they are required to treat I think it is safe to place some faith in their years of study and professional knowledge. Otherwise you may as well not bother with modern medicine and just muck about with some roots and potions from your local curandera.

I've been on ritalin as an adult, what would you like to know?

I'm actually still on Concerta, which is ritalin-derived, I think.

Stence, there are things about medications that are not listed in the side effects. A doctor will not know half as much about the way they actually make you *feel* as someone who has been on the stuff.

For example, I've never come across a single piece of literature about Lithium that even mentions the low-leve auditory hallucinations. Yet talking to a couple of other people who had been on it, they marked the same sensation. That's not something my doctor could have told me, but it's something I wish I'd known before I took the stuff.

uh, if you and other people experience side effects that haven't been reported, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD TELL SOMEONE, MAYBE A DOCTOR EVEN.

I'd say I have a cautious, slightly wary but ultimately faithful attitude toward modern medicine. I just know that the pharma industry has been pushing drug solutions to everything for years, and that there are sometimes unsavory relationships between pharma and doctors, or between pharma and the bodies performing studies. I also know that in my previous experiences with ongoing medication (for asthma, allergies), I found that in the long run I got worse and required stronger medication, but when I stopped using medication I eventually had fewer problems, and none of the doctors I saw suggested this effect as a possibility. I'm not about to seek out medicinal plants in the forest, just wanted to hear someone's experience with the drug.

ps thanks for the needless condescension

Like you think I didn't try that? And face the doctor going "hrmm, that side effect isn't listed in the handbook. If you're hallucinating, maybe you're having a schitzophrenic breakdown, and should be put on even MORE heavy medications for the side effects of the medication we put you on to stop the side effects of the first one..."

And then you learn to shut your mouth in doctors offices, and trust experiencial evidence.

x-posts

p.s. Stence, you know I love you, but you're kind of being a dick on this thread. Can't you go and do something nice, like post pictures of your hair? :-)

xxxxpost

:( I was not being condescending and have emailed my brother. If he gives me a useful response, I will share. (also I have been on Strattera and had no bad side effects although I don't feel it did much good either.)

Kate, I think you're being the dick.

y'know, it isn't naive to suggest that doctors actually should be WORKING for you, as a patient. if you feel that your doctor isn't helping you or is withholding information from you or just isn't aware of the facts, you can go to a new one (at least in the states) (if you have good insurance, which i don't).

however, doctors are not cure-all medicine man shaman types. and they certainly can't do their jobs if you don't share what you're experiencing with them. the doctor-patient relationship has to go both ways for it to even be somewhat useful.

and asking for someone's opinion on a drug they've taken is fine, but won't necessarily help you at all. everyone's physiology is different (like wow! ya don't say), and some side effects that someone on ritalin might experience may not be relevant to you at all.

again, if you feel i'm being condescending to say that you should talk - candidly and with as much detail as possible as you can - to a doctor, well, then i guess i'm being condescending. but i know that if i was going to take anything on the advice of a physician - or anyone else, for that matter - i'd want to know as much as possible about it, and i'd ask that physician as many questions as i could think of to ask.

And then you learn to shut your mouth in doctors offices, and trust experiencial evidence.

that's really not going to do you any favors. i'm sure that culturally there's a lot of differences between health care in the uk and health care here, but there's no way i'd let a doctor shut me up or stifle me from asking questions when my own health is concerned.

from drugs.com:

lithium side effects:

*extreme thirst, urinating more or less than usual;
*weakness, fever, feeling restless or confused, eye pain and vision problems;
*restless muscle movements in your eyes, tongue, jaw, or neck;
*pain, cold feeling, or discoloration in your fingers or toes;
*feeling light-headed, fainting, slow heart rate;
*hallucinations, seizure (blackout or convulsions);
*fever with muscle stiffness, sweating, fast or uneven heartbeats; or
*early signs of lithium toxicity, such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, drowsiness, muscle weakness, tremor, lack of coordination, blurred vision, or ringing in your ears.

I assume hallucinations covers both visual and auditory.

Knowledge is power and you should always do your own research. This includes from official sources as well as other users of those meds. As with all info you must remember not to take anything as the final word and exercise your own judgement.

Stence, if you were going to get contact lenses, would you talk to an eye doctor with perfect vision, or would you ask your mate who had contacts what they were like?

If you were gonna get a bicycle, would you talk to a bicyclist, or a bicycle salesman who drove a car everywhere?

If you were gonna get a house built, would you hire an architect who had only ever read about engineering, or one who had had experience working with engineers on site on other projects?

It's a perfectly valid question to want to ask someone with actual experience, rather than simply accept the prognosis of an expert.

Ask both and make your decision based on both is the smart route.

xpost - those are completely strawman arguments. doctors don't just work in some magical vacuum without other patients and research, much less years and years of training.

Sorry, I somehow missed the post where you actually asked questions.

What are the biggest drawbacks to ritalin, assuming non-abuse?

For me, the biggest thing was behavioural -- the anger thing. I used to get angry about things for about five seconds, but by the time that amount of time had passed, I had forgotten the feeling of the anger. Not necessarily forgot what made me angry, nor why it made me angry-- I just sort of... disconnected from it very quickly. Now I actually have the capacity to "hold on" to that feeling, which scared me for a while-- I actually found myself having to breathe slower, count to ten, etc.

Is it dependency forming?

yes and no. If I don't take them, I'm 'off' all day-- kind of tired, kidn of irritable, unable to focus on even things I enjoy-- but, I was like this before I started taking Ritalin. I'd say it's habit-forming insofar that it makes you more productive, and you... get used to being more productive? Does that make sense?

Does it wear off after a while, moving you to stronger drugs?

I was on 2x10mg fast release of Ritalin for a while, about 4-6 hours apart from each other. Then I was on 1x20 slow release ritalin, with 5-10mg fast release on days where I 'needed' it. I then went to 36mg Concerta, which is a bit more but metered out even longer than the slow release (14 hours instead of 10, roughly). I have been on the 36mg Concerta for probably a couple of years now, with no need to upgrade-- I've thought about it a couple of times, but for the most part I'm doing okay without. If I developed a 'tolerance,' it was to the side effects, and the actual benefits remained.

I know about the risk of heart palpitations and all that.

I've had my blood pressure feel like it's gone up only fter accidentally taking my ritalin twice (I'm absent minded before it kicks in, so about 3 times in the past few years I've said 'hey, I should take it' then three minutes later, 'hey I should take it.') On my regular dose, though, no real problems. I've been going to my doc a few times a year to make sure my blood pressure is still safe. Then again, I'm 23, thin, and I run around a fair bit. YMMV.

Your doc should only be putting you on a trial run first, anyway, because Ritalin ISN'T for everyone with 'ADD.' Having been someone with ADD and having been a camp counselor for other kids with ADD has shown me that the actual label is bullshit, and I think it's just a blanket term for lots of different mental problems that have similar symptoms. Ritalin has made my life a LOT better. Some people, it's made it way worse. Some people do better on Dexedrine (one of my best friends in HS), some on anti-depressants (an ex-boyfriend of my friend), some on other pills (I don't know people on the other stuff, like Adderall, Strattera, etc, but I know they work for some). The best way to know for sure is to try one and see if it helps. Ritalin won't make you a junkie if you do it for a couple of days.

THIS IS REALLY XXXXXXXXPOSTED

What are you guys arguing? NEVER LISTEN TO DOCTORS ABT DRUGZ vs. NEVER LISTEN TO ANYONE BUT DOCTORS ABT DRUGZ? Because if so you're both so wrong. Even in the 'straw man' arguments what would stop me from listening to the guy who wears contacts AND the eye doctor?!

That is what I have said. Anything otherwise seems stupid. Like I said knowledge is power esp when it comes to your health. You can never ask too many questions.

i never said not to ask other people, what i'm arguing is that a doctor is generally going to be more informed - generally has to be more informed even (it's their job, afterall) - moreso than other people you know who have taken the same drug/had the same procedure, because not everyone reacts the same way to the same drug.

i dont think hstencil was ever really arguing that you shouldnt talk to your friends, just that masonic boom's "DONT TRUST DOCTORS" stance is sorta ridiculous

xpost yep

I'm not even going to try to express myself any more, you guys can just carry on reading whatever you like into my posts, regardless of what I'm trying to say.

But Will, I'd like to say thanks for that post, that's the kind of detailed information that I'd like to know before taking any drug.

To MB's credit, it's fucking HARD to trust a doctor after they've disregarded what you've said about your experiences on something, or perpetually misprescribed. I have a lot of friends who feel the same way-- in fact, one of my best friends was on Lithium for a while when he definitely shouldn't have been.

The real trick here, though, is to make sure you have a good doctor. That's what nobody seems to have brought up yet... you can say not to trust doctors, or to trust them more than non-doctors, but when it comes down to it, a good doctor's advice is as helpful as a bad doctor's is harmful. It's naive to think that all doctors are wise and intelligent and caring and good listeners, but it's callous to think that they're all the doc from Requiem for a Dream. The best we can do is find the right doctor.

That's easy for me to say though, I live in Canada.

The real trick here, though, is to make sure you have a good doctor.

Absolutely. You have to keep trying until you find one that clicks with you and you know you can trust. My current psych. is fan-fucking-tastic. Alas he takes no insurance so I must pay cash. That is the sad truth of US healthcare: to get the best you must often have the dough.

dude:

y'know, it isn't naive to suggest that doctors actually should be WORKING for you, as a patient. if you feel that your doctor isn't helping you or is withholding information from you or just isn't aware of the facts, you can go to a new one (at least in the states) (if you have good insurance, which i don't)

if you think your doctor isn't listening to you or isn't answering your questions to your satisfaction, BY ALL MEANS GO TO A DIFFERENT ONE. how many times do i have to say it?

also you could not pay me to take lithium, no way.

Have you tried it before?

It's been miraculous for me and zero serious side-effects. I know a lot of people have bad side effects but for others (like myself) it is seriously the only thing that works.

no i haven't tried it but based on what doctors (ha!) and people i know who've taken it (double ha!) have told me, and that list of side effects, i wouldn't want to. if you had a positive experience, that's great! i feel like i've known a lot of people who've taken it who have had intensely negative experiences on it, not to mention it isn't really applicable to any problems i've really had anyway.

Saying you would never take it based on what you've heard from others is just as ignorant as what's been said above.

If you suffered from the disease it is used for and literally tried everything else, trust me trying something you've heard some bad things about in an attempt to be able to actually LIVE is perfectly valid. It is not physically addictive and you can always get off of it if you don't like it.

Compared to other mood stabilizers used to treat Bipolar Disorder it's the simplest, most tried and true drug out there.

It's been good for my wife as well. Some side effects, none TOO bad, except her drymouth is so bad she probably drinks 4-5 liters of water a day.

xpost

lol, so now you're telling me that what doctors have told me about it is "ignorant?"

and again, it isn't even applicable for anything i'd need, what i've learned from doctors (and patients too!) was asking out of curiosity. if it worked for you, then good for you. again, not all drugs work for everyone, even people with the same symptoms and diseases.