I thought you hated Jia, Morbs.
I love all those dudes, but I'm really not interested in claiming them as "highbrow".
― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:05 (sixteen years ago) link
betcha you can't name three living 'highbrow' filmmakers working in the US
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:07 (sixteen years ago) link
1. Brett Ratner 2. Uwe Boll 3. Keenan Ivory Wayans
― HI DERE, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:08 (sixteen years ago) link
Who gives a shit?
x-p
― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:08 (sixteen years ago) link
ahhh, Little Man
― latebloomer, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:09 (sixteen years ago) link
x-post
4. Paul Haggis
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:09 (sixteen years ago) link
(i'm totally kidding, i think the whole highbrow/middlebrow/lowbrow distinction is wicked retarded)
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:10 (sixteen years ago) link
^
― latebloomer, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:10 (sixteen years ago) link
no, the only Jia film I've found wanting was The World.
Yeah, Fools Gold or Passio. all the same. FART
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:13 (sixteen years ago) link
ps. i really liked sideways and schmidt and ruth and election, and i think that together they make up a neat little canon of very american films about this country, in the present tense. they are praised out of proportion, sure, and sometimes for the wrong reasons ('touching'! 'incisive'!) but they make great use of low-key ironic/comic detachment to tell vaguely realistic stories, while avoiding the So Serious kitchen-sink realism that is the usual provenance of 'highbrow' stories
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:15 (sixteen years ago) link
for the record, i don't think any of them are brilliant. but all of them are entertaining, humane, and unique little trifles
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:17 (sixteen years ago) link
^^^ yes
after election i was kinda disappointed by sideways but really the only thing payne did that i hated was jurassic park 3
― and what, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:17 (sixteen years ago) link
though i think election actually is brilliant and the rest are entertaining humane and unique trifles
― and what, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:18 (sixteen years ago) link
I never saw Passio, but it seems like burning the negative after screening your movie in a couple of churches is a pretty easy way to pass for highbrow.
― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:19 (sixteen years ago) link
or just good PR.
So Serious kitchen-sink realism sounds "middlebrow" to me.
The contempt for the characters is what made About Schmidt unbearable to me. A friend who liked it said, Well yeah, fuckin' Middle American assholes, hooray for honesty.
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:20 (sixteen years ago) link
it might be a matter of parsing: i read payne's portrayal of silly Middle Americans as self-inclusive and knowing, not contemptuous and condescending. there are pretty pervasive thematic resonances of redemption and transcendence running through most of his characters: they are broken and battered and weird, but at heart still good, solid, hopeful people.
yesterday i listened to tony gilroy on 'the treatment.' he talked very poignantly about about how the true meat of the american story is in the phrase 'a few minutes too late' –- a conceit i think payne knows and employs very very well.
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:29 (sixteen years ago) link
they are broken and battered and weird, but at heart still good, solid, hopeful people.
Isn't this patronizing? I don't want Schmidt redeemed -- he's a shit.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:30 (sixteen years ago) link
as usual people who accuse directors of hating their characters are projecting because they hate the characters themselves
― and what, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:31 (sixteen years ago) link
The contempt for the characters is what made About Schmidt unbearable to me.
yeah I couldn't bear this either
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:32 (sixteen years ago) link
i think kathy bates & dermot mulroney are gross caricatures that almost ruin the film but everybody else is nuanced + great
― and what, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:33 (sixteen years ago) link
telling stories about people the author hates is as old as fiction ethan wtf
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:33 (sixteen years ago) link
that's kind of mean and off the mark, to my eyes
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:34 (sixteen years ago) link
im not saying that no director has ever made a movie about characters they hated, just that i dont think alexander payne is that dude
― and what, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:35 (sixteen years ago) link
look how excited he is to cast all these normal people - do you think he's laughing at the janitor in election or the waitress in about schmidt?
― and what, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:36 (sixteen years ago) link
so what if he's a shit, alfred? the whole conceit of the movie is the redemption of a once-decent guy who's turned/been turned into an asshole by the unpleasant business of his life. why would you honestly begrudge his elevation at the end of the film? his return to humanity from asshole crotchetyhood?
and why would you suggest it is patronizing?
nobody has said you have to like the character: it's hard to do so, because he's such an ornery old grump, but he is relatable to an awful lot of people (n1) and that – surely – makes a better film than him sitting in the cold, alone, wallowing in self-pity at the end of the film.
(n1) i'd say 'most', but i'm anticipating a high-and-lofty response from somebody who 'can't' relate)
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:45 (sixteen years ago) link
(please forgive my terribly quick writing, i am switching between two documents @ work)
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:46 (sixteen years ago) link
It was perhaps once useful, but it's pretty much obsolescent nowadays.
― jaymc, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:46 (sixteen years ago) link
how else could you rationalize watching all those 'quality' TV shows on DVD?
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:48 (sixteen years ago) link
You can call Shakey by name.
― HI DERE, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:48 (sixteen years ago) link
shut the fuck up dr morbius
― and what, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:49 (sixteen years ago) link
eat shit Three Six Mafia lamo
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:50 (sixteen years ago) link
are you really turning your nose up at all television?
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:51 (sixteen years ago) link
no, just The OC
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:51 (sixteen years ago) link
Morbs, I was going to say something about how TV does certain things differently than film and there are therefore reasons why one might want to watch a TV show instead of a film (which is not to say either medium is "better"), but I think Ethan expressed my sentiment better.
― jaymc, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:51 (sixteen years ago) link
lol you guys (and what, Dr Morbius) know you're a sitcom, right?
― HI DERE, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:52 (sixteen years ago) link
I don't think I've ever said anything about The OC being a "quality" show!
― jaymc, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:52 (sixteen years ago) link
true story: i got in an argument with josh schwartz (at a bar mitzvah, none the less) when we were in high school in RI, but i doubt he remembers.
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:53 (sixteen years ago) link
I don't think Payne hates the characters in Election, but I remember About Schmidt striking me as way more jaundiced and just using its characters as caricatures.
and that – surely – makes a better film than him sitting in the cold, alone, wallowing in self-pity at the end of the film
granted I've only seen this movie once and it was a long time ago but I could've sworn this IS how it ended...?
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:54 (sixteen years ago) link
bring back changeable usernames
― Jordan, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:54 (sixteen years ago) link
Schmidt opens a surprise letter from Tanzania. It is written by a nun who cares for Ndugu, and she writes briefly but warmly that Ndugu is illiterate but enjoys Schmidt's letters and financial aid very much. With the financial aid, Ngudu was able to receive much needed medical care. The little boy's hand-drawn picture is enclosed, showing two smiling stick figures, one large and one small, holding hands in the blazing sun.
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:55 (sixteen years ago) link
yeah but he's still sitting in his room alone and miserable...? I thought that whole ending was just to show how that letter brought him no satisfaction and didn't change his life one bit.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:57 (sixteen years ago) link
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/projection-tv-front-projection.jpg shakey mo watching a movie^^^
― and what, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:58 (sixteen years ago) link
surprised no-one here has weighed in on 'chuck and larry' yet.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:59 (sixteen years ago) link
shakey mo, you interpret that scene utterly the opposite way i do
― remy bean, Thursday, 7 February 2008 21:00 (sixteen years ago) link
that's the one we don't talk about (xp)
btw ethan I am not a lonely old man
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 February 2008 21:01 (sixteen years ago) link
The full Wikipedia excerpt:
When he returns home to Omaha, his narrative to the orphan Ndugu questions what he has ever accomplished in his life. A pile of mail is waiting for him inside the empty house. Schmidt opens a surprise letter from Tanzania. It is written by a nun who cares for Ndugu, and she writes briefly but warmly that Ndugu is illiterate but enjoys Schmidt's letters and financial aid very much. With the financial aid, Ngudu was able to receive much needed medical care. The little boy's hand-drawn picture is enclosed, showing two smiling stick figures, one large and one small, holding hands in the blazing sun. Schmidt weeps with emotion and the film ends.
Clearly the emotion being expressed is revulsion and self-loathing at being empty and worthless, not being overwhelmed that he did actually have a massively positive impact on someone else's life.
― HI DERE, Thursday, 7 February 2008 21:02 (sixteen years ago) link
xpost shakey, you've fooled everyone on ilx
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 7 February 2008 21:02 (sixteen years ago) link
um people cry for lots of reasons
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 February 2008 21:04 (sixteen years ago) link