― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 21 October 2004 08:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 08:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 08:55 (nineteen years ago) link
X-post. Ahh, cool. I haven't read that.
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― stevie (stevie), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:44 (nineteen years ago) link
I did like his book "Russia Under The Old Regime", so was slightly disappointed to find out he was in with all the neo-cons in the '70s. Although he did have one very annoying habit of referring to all medieval people of Scandinavian origin as "Normans".
― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 21 October 2004 10:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 10:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 21 October 2004 10:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 21 October 2004 10:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 10:18 (nineteen years ago) link
I can't remember what the Mitrokhin Archive says about Soviet sponsorship of teroorism, but there was something. Possibly supplied by The Spy Who Came In From The Garden.
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 21 October 2004 10:39 (nineteen years ago) link
A torrent for the episode, if anyone is interested.
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 22 October 2004 16:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 11:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 11:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bumfluff, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link
In the end, it was strangely calming, rather than depressing. All this will pass.
― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 22:16 (nineteen years ago) link
Tonight's episode was very poignant, and made me sad.
― Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 22:24 (nineteen years ago) link
I second that. I downloaded the last two episodes last Saturday and watched them, very powerful. It's sad that there's great documentaries such as this and The White House for Sale airing on UK television, and most people in the US won't get an opportunity to see them.
― Leon in Exile (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 22:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link
Also, things that weakened his argument, such as Madrid, were kind of skipped over a bit too lightly.
Kerry seemed shoved in just in case.
Quibbles aside, top-notch television. I may even go for a month without complaining about my licence fee.
It is strange that I had never heard those people swearing as the planes hit the towers.
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 4 November 2004 07:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 4 November 2004 09:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 4 November 2004 09:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 4 November 2004 09:42 (nineteen years ago) link
The cumulative effect was a kind of political version of James Burke's Connections series from the '70s. OK in shaggy dog conspiracy terms but didn't really pinpoint whether it was just the expected cocktail of bilateral incompetence, stubbornness and stupidity which led us to our current pretty pass rather than a Conspiracy as such.
― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 4 November 2004 09:57 (nineteen years ago) link
I too totally agree with PJ Miller. I don't recall Madrid being mentioned at all. I couldn't get the idea out of my head that while it's fine to criticise the hysteria created by the neo-cons, (that Disney video!!), you can understand why the likes of Britain have to at least be on their guard against the kind of thing that happened in Madrid - even if we acknowledge the programme's main point that there is no such thing as monstrous Al-Qaeda.
― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Thursday, 4 November 2004 10:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 4 November 2004 10:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― Two-Headed Zombie With No Face (kate), Thursday, 4 November 2004 12:00 (nineteen years ago) link
This was the third part, part 1 was all about Afghanistan
― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 4 November 2004 12:14 (nineteen years ago) link
great use of music, mind.
― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 4 November 2004 12:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 4 November 2004 13:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stew S, Thursday, 4 November 2004 13:47 (nineteen years ago) link
a) didnt really explore what Bin Laden's motivations were for trying a new policy of attacking america, going against what other islamic fundamentalist gorups were interested in (eg toppling central asian regimes*).
b) kept on repeating how the neo cons "grand mission" was some titanic battle of good vs evil, that seemed a bit suspect. are these people really solely driven by moral purpose, no matter how extreme or well, silly, that moral purpose is?
c) er i tcant think of another. but i sort of inherently dont believ things on tv when people make somewhat grandiose claims, whether they be blair, bush or some dude intoning opposing views over loads of tiny clips. it was kinda eisenstein-esque, and well, his aim was kinda totally "manipulate the viewer, worry bout factual issues later".
* interesting becasue in 2000 i was in debate with loads of russian politics students, and they savaged us about Chechnya, along the lines of "Russia is under the threat of Attack by a islamic super state, chehcnya will be the first to fall to them". We (ie a few brits) were all like, "WTF? Islamic fundamentalism? whats that? whats the issue here? quit being so paranoid!". a year later, it became a bit clearer what the idea of a threat from islamic fundamentalism might mean.
― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 4 November 2004 14:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:34 (nineteen years ago) link
I think the current election results put this theory pretty firmly to rest, at least w/r/t "unity."
― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:39 (nineteen years ago) link
although if you ask me, chechnya is now about "you killed my brother/son, now i kill you" from both sides.
― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:42 (nineteen years ago) link
ok but russian paranoia can be viewed in relation to the number of bombings, kidnappings*, and other related incidents that are loosely connected (or are supposed to be) with Chechens**, that have plagued russia especially the south and moscow (hint: dont go there on holiday right now!) for the last 5 years. I nearly got blown up a few years back*** (i was 30 mins too early) so its kinds weird for me.
*yes i know these are not often actually really anything to do with the war, just get rich qucik schemes, but it is an easy thing to associate with other worse crimes if you want to hate on the chechens!
** I think "Chechmes" means "anyone south and east of Kislovodsk" nowadays in russia
*** Okhotny Ryad 1999. Gas explosion or bomb? apartment bombings: FSB or chechens ?!?! ooh the mystery!!!
― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 4 November 2004 15:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Saturday, 6 November 2004 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 6 November 2004 17:44 (nineteen years ago) link
if I was him I'd put in a scene with something like some haunted '90s VHS footage of a post-Soviet grocery store with empty shelves and desperate faces with a sad BURIAL soundtrack, just for the haters, lol
― calzino, Wednesday, 12 October 2022 16:18 (one year ago) link
a nim nim nah
― mark s, Wednesday, 12 October 2022 16:19 (one year ago) link
If there is a subtitle narrative I'll still be reading it in his voice.
this tbh
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 12 October 2022 16:56 (one year ago) link
Guessing there is no voiceover as Curtis has probably registered the reaction/parodying of it.
― barry sito (gyac), Wednesday, 12 October 2022 17:00 (one year ago) link
this is the most recent Adam Curtis documentary afaic
David Baddiel vs the worms pic.twitter.com/vACyOyKTjC— TheIainDuncanSmiths (@TheIDSmiths) January 5, 2022
― link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 12 October 2022 17:12 (one year ago) link
― lets hear some blues on those synths (brimstead), Wednesday, 12 October 2022 17:38 (one year ago) link
ah yes he did. I'm thinking that the "something incredible happened" parts of his narration would actually sound hilarious in a deepfake Starmer voice
― calzino, Wednesday, 12 October 2022 18:12 (one year ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/oct/12/russia-adam-curtis-extreme-capitalism-liz-truss-traumazone
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 12 October 2022 21:58 (one year ago) link
This is good lol
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 13 October 2022 17:42 (one year ago) link
Though I do miss the bullshit
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 13 October 2022 17:43 (one year ago) link
"The main cause of fires in apartments across Russia was exploding TV sets"
― calzino, Thursday, 13 October 2022 17:56 (one year ago) link
this is the best shit on the beeb in ages.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 October 2022 19:00 (one year ago) link
loved episode one. tho I do actually miss his voice tbh. thought the lemur/porcupine guy at the start was de niro circa taxi driver for a minute. Chernobyl stuff was wince inducing especially the scientists who must of known the folly of their improvised has-suits. loads of stuff I didn't know about ie Georgia gassing. liked the Mujahedin fighting in the background over which one got the surrendered Soviet soldiers weapons.
― oscar bravo, Thursday, 13 October 2022 19:52 (one year ago) link
"move your fat arse and fire the rocket"!
― calzino, Thursday, 13 October 2022 19:57 (one year ago) link
lol yesalso thought it was sweet that the hotel receptionist turned down the offer of a bribe from the prostitute and allowed her to go about her business tax free.found the voice and tone of the reform school den mother v soothing
― oscar bravo, Friday, 14 October 2022 06:27 (one year ago) link
i’m about halfway into the second one. it’s true that he’s not making the kind of big argument he usually does with these. it’s like a footage reclamation exercise, well edited, well subtitled. i mean that’s what it says on the tin - “what it felt like” - and so he’s putting the mundane side by side with the extraordinary, the personal side by side with big public news, as it would have felt, day by day. i suppose the economic history of looting and perestroika he has to tease out of the footage a bit more. but you can imagine this sort of project done with any number of subjects in the bbc archives really.
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 14 October 2022 07:53 (one year ago) link
extraordinary moment when the soviet soldiers are surrendering and one of them has a shaved head and your brain tells you it must be that young man we saw leaving home earlier.
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 14 October 2022 07:59 (one year ago) link
Ha!
An absolute disaster on the train as I settle down with my laptop to watch Episode 4 of Adam Curtis’s new BBC series about Russia in the 1990s.— Dominic Sandbrook (@dcsandbrook) October 14, 2022
― link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 14 October 2022 09:56 (one year ago) link
That cake factory. Jesus.
― 29 facepalms, Friday, 14 October 2022 11:16 (one year ago) link
all that could have been avoided with a simple "I'm so sorry! I'm watching a documentary and didn't know they would be showing things like that! ...have you heard about TraumaZone!?"
― Karl Malone, Friday, 14 October 2022 13:45 (one year ago) link
i'm looking forward to watching. my VPN is having trouble fooling the bbc iplayer but it'll work somehow.
― Karl Malone, Friday, 14 October 2022 13:46 (one year ago) link
episode 2loved the old woman taking the long journey to visit her friend to get some potatoes. she was great.holy shit at the laundry that had a refit one year that resulted in lots of scrap metal of old machines and the central planners noting this volume of scrap and writing it into future plans that they must have the same amount of scrap EVERY year from now on or be fined despite the fact that obviously no new refitting was taking place in subsequent years. resulting in the laundry going looking for scrap to fulfill their quota. astonishing.
― oscar bravo, Friday, 14 October 2022 20:10 (one year ago) link
Just started in on this. Am reminded a lot of El Narco: Inside Mexico's Criminal Insurgency another really good breakdown of how a country becomes a kleptocracy.
FYI, it's Lawrence English doing some of the soundscapeshttps://lawrenceenglish.bandcamp.com/album/themes-and-atmospheres-for-adam-curtiss-russia-1985-1999-traumazone
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 15 October 2022 05:15 (one year ago) link
I was confusing him with Adam Curry in my mind - talk about the Power of Nightmares
― | (Latham Green), Saturday, 15 October 2022 11:26 (one year ago) link
holy shit at the laundry that had a refit one year that resulted in lots of scrap metal of old machines and the central planners noting this volume of scrap and writing it into future plans that they must have the same amount of scrap EVERY year from now on or be fined despite the fact that obviously no new refitting was taking place in subsequent years. resulting in the laundry going looking for scrap to fulfill their quota. astonishing.
― circa1916, Sunday, 16 October 2022 00:11 (one year ago) link
Episode 4: Every scene with the national anthem committee had me laughing.
― blatherskite, Sunday, 16 October 2022 23:41 (one year ago) link
Interview with Curtis from yesterday as the UK government collapsed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=663vLIYBcpI
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 20 October 2022 17:31 (one year ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtVx3KaZ-Z0
curtis on office hours
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 20 October 2022 17:44 (one year ago) link
That little beggar girl, she does act up for the camera with the confidence of a Hollywood child actor, it's quite amazing. Wonder what happened to her, most probably I don't want to know.
― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 22 October 2022 12:10 (one year ago) link
need to know what this karaoke track from Kyrgyzstan in episode 4 is
― maf you one two (maffew12), Sunday, 23 October 2022 00:10 (one year ago) link
this is good
― “Cheeky cheeky!” she trills, nearly demolishing a roadside post (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 07:07 (one year ago) link
Did v much enjoy the taxi driver saying
The plan is the plan.It's a pain in the arse.
― Fizzles, Thursday, 27 October 2022 18:18 (one year ago) link
lol that the Russian fascists decided to call themselves liberal democrats
extra lol at a party calling itself demicrats and openly campaigning for abolishing elections
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 27 October 2022 20:08 (one year ago) link
traumazone is on bbc4 on Monday (pts 1, 2, 3)
― koogs, Saturday, 28 January 2023 17:21 (one year ago) link
I keep thinking Adam Curry
― | (Latham Green), Saturday, 28 January 2023 17:39 (one year ago) link
heck yeah, Reddit came through here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwAuCdO62UU
― maf you one two (maffew12), Saturday, 28 January 2023 17:44 (one year ago) link
Anyone seen this?
today is 9/11. but in a way, every day since 9/11 has also been 9/11......i interviewed Christopher Jason Bell (@UpdateTheGrids) about his sprawling found-footage chronicle of the B*sh years MISS ME YET, free to stream on @means_tv, for @thebafflermag ~https://t.co/EJmB1AnIIs— $teve Macfarlane (℠) (@dimension_tide) September 11, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 28 September 2023 17:11 (seven months ago) link
I’m intrigued by this but, having been in high school during this era, I don’t know how long I could watch it without ruining my day with anger. Had the same reaction last year when I read Reign of Terror: How the 9/11 Era Destabilized America and Produced Trump.
― blatherskite, Friday, 29 September 2023 14:22 (seven months ago) link