You Want Superman Revamp? [Also the Man of Steel (2013) thread]

surely this is the most blatant piece of comic book nerdity-sublimation evah

I loved how outraged people became when Doug caught a bullet. My main reaction was, "Well, what did you expect? Dude went into a combat situation where no one was looking out for him and logic prevailed. (Warlock used to cover his ass but he was off with Sunspot in the Fallen Angels miniseries.)

I read a fan-fic where they ramped Cypher's power up from being able to interpret languages to being able to assimilate information, kind of like the way people had skills uploaded into their brains in "The Matrix" (only predating that by about 5 years). It almost made him a viable member of the team. At any rate, he's a character who's solely suited towards research/diplomacy and I'm glad that Louise Simonson didn't shy away from offing him.

Tom, are you talking about / standing up for the post-Byrne & Crisis, pre-Jurgens & DOOMSDAY! shenanigans? I'd have to agree, actually (tho I missed the Byrne / Kesel art combo). I'll wait for Mr. Skidmore to hop in & voice his displeasure re: this era, given he's not a fannie of the modern-day powered down Supes (unless he's Supe-d up again).

Smart money puts Mr. Morrison on Green Lantern at this point, sadly.

Looks like all of the current creative teams on the Super-books will get replaced at this point.

Semi-related, The Ultimates may be a thing of the past, as Mark Millar/Bryan Hitch are now in the running for books at DC as well.

Now, Grant Morrison on Spiderman or something, that'd be a shame.

Damn that Rucka. He's making me buy books I swore I'd never read.

Abstractly, this is beautiful.

Grant on anything is terrific. Grant with a really good artist is obviously even better. Grant and Art Adams on one of the great characters, one of my favourites, one Grant has already proven he can do exceptionally well, would be almost brain-meltingly wonderful.

According to DC, the writers on the 3 Superman titles (Superman Adventures of..., Action Comics) will be (respectively) Brian Azzarello, Greg Rucka, and Chuck Austen. Here are excerpts of what Austen plans on doing to Superman (via the Millarworld boards, via an interview @ CBR.com - LINK). Not WITH - TO. Since this is as down as I can feel regarding a fictional character, I'm gonna go fictionally throw up and then have a fictional weep or 26.

**************

"Clark will no longer be the star reporter. Someone is hired in his place to bring in a 'younger demographic' and Clark is shunted off to one side doing shmoe work. And the guy who replaces him is a jerk who he hates, and Clark can't understand. This makes no sense. He's a great writer, blah, blah, blah. Just like you and I feel when someone doesn't give us our due. When someone else is given the promotion we deserved.

[...]

"What will make it unique, I guess, is that, hopefully, it will all be unexpected. Everything will be fresh and surprising, and human. I don't see Clark as an alien, at all. I see him as an average Joe farmboy with incredible powers. The alien thing was just an excuse to give him powers. If we can't relate to him on any level, if he's alien and rich, and successful, and happily married-oops, did I say that out loud-then there's nothing for readers to hang onto. I already told you Clark won't be the star reporter. That's somewhat new. And that's the smallest change I asked for. Wait until you see what I do with Bizarro. And Gog is back. Woof. I'm having fun."

[...]

And that story was originally written as a 'Superman and Lois have a miscarriage.'

[...]

"So to all that, let me just say ... Lana's single again. And she liked Clark as Clark first, and then also as Superman. Much healthier.

*****************

UGH. If this is the plan, bring back the mullet & the lightning bolt. And Black-Like-Me Lois. And the Supercar. And clones.

The Spider-Man Clone Saga thing, it sucked the way it was written, but the idea itself was at least a good example of doing something new with a character that a) didn't depend on lukewarm "reinterpretation" and b) came directly out of what had gone before.

I take offense at the "the nerds won" thing, becuase the nerds would most definitely concoct some sort of continuity-weighted logistical pretzel (cf. Clone Saga) than some warmed-over soap-opera potboiler. Of course, maybe Austen is just a horny nerd - his storylines in various Marvel books involve contrived lovelines & triangles & other types of polygons w/ dialogue that would melt Joe Eszterhas at 50 feet (cf. the example I posted earlier in this thread). Also, he's been lambasted by various "internet trolls" for his questionable characterization of various female characters. It's also worth reading that CBR interview to read the paragraph where he refers to old-school Lois Lane as a "gold-digging bitch" (paraphrased, of course).

I'd like to think there's a happy DMZ between continuity acknowledgement and devil-may-care hooptie where good stories involving established comic characters can be created and enjoyed. For the love of monkeyfuck, there's no need to play "the other woman" card AGAIN!

He's not an alien, he's Jewish!

(Captain Atom's own series was quite good in places, IIRC, or maybe I'm thinking of someone else.)

BTW, Horace, if you liked _Quiver_ (the Kevin Smith Green Arrow story, right?), you might like the 6-issue Brad Melzter Green Arrow run that followed it (_The Archer's Quest_). I liked it MUCH better than Smith's GA work, actually (or the bits of _Quiver_ I read) - Mr. Smith's knack w/ dialogue (which might be overstated) doesn't translate too well onto the printed page.

Its been so successful they have signed on for another mini called "I Can't Believe Its Not The Justice League".

And on the movie front:

Warner Bros is trying to ready its DC Comics stalwart Superman to soar again on the Big Screen, and the studio has turned to Chris Nolan to mentor development of the movie. Our insiders say that the brains behind rebooted Batman has been asked to play a "godfather" role and ensure The Man Of Steel gets off the ground after a 3 1/2-year hiatus. Nolan's leadership of the project can set it in the right direction with the critics and the fans, not to mention at the box office. Besides, Nolan is considered something of a god at Warner Bros and has a strong relationship with the studio after the success of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Though he wasn’t obligated to do so, he gave the studio first crack at his spec script Inception, and Warner Bros was able to buy it before other studios even got a sniff. While Nolan completes that Leonardo DiCaprio-starrer for a July 16th release, he's also hatched an idea for Warner Bros' third Batman installment. Now his brother and frequent collaborator Jonah Nolan, and David Goyer who co-wrote Batman Begins and penned the story for The Dark Knight, are off scripting it.

Let us emphasize that Superman 3.0 is in the early stages of development. And we doubt Nolan would direct. This wouldn't be a sequel to Superman Returns but a completely fresh franchise. As one of our insiders reassures: “It would definitely not be a followup to Superman Returns." Nolan coming on board follows a hiatus period for Superman after that 2006 reboot as the studio tried to figure out whether or not to make a sequel to that version starring Brandon Routh directed by Bryan Singer. As recently as this summer, Warner Bros was still contemplating how to proceed. We were told that "Bryan or Brandon are not completely out of it yet. But Warner Bros doesn't have a handle yet on it, either. (Producer) Jon Peters is trying to make something happen since he stands to benefit financially. But they (the studio) need to hear a great story that makes sense." Another insider explained to us, "We know what we don't want to do. But we don't know what we want to do. We learned a lot from the last movie, and we want to get it right this time."

Etc. etc.

It's a little weird that they're rebooting all of these commics franchises so soon (Hulk, Spider-Man...and Fantastic Four, from what I understand), but I think I might be okay with it from the standpoint of shit just not working the first time.

bankruptcy of ideas, plus cynical appeal to the familiar.

Isn't it still Superman 2.0 at this point? Singer/Routh still held all the trappings if the Donner/Lester/Reeve films.

Hey you're the one with the doctorate, how can you not know!

all this time Snyder was making his own Fahrenheit 9/11 and we never knew

in the sequel america will deal with the influence of bloomsberg types (Batman) and koch brothers types (Luthor)

Superman is also not necessarily all-powerful! Even the original movies dialed him substantially down from how out of control he'd gotten in the Silver Age, and John Byrne's Man of Steel series rebooting the character in the 80s followed up on that - more 'super duper tough' than 'invulnerable,' etc. Recall that he originally couldn't even fly - he leaps tall buildings in a single bound. So there are lots of ways to take the character that aren't necessarily God On Earth. I think the immigrant story is very rich with possibilities, and if taken seriously could be a great way to make the character relevant: America has a lot of immigrants these days after all. Do him as an immigrant who does struggle, play up the ways people might misunderstand him or find him threatening. You don't want to turn him into Spider-Man or the X-Men in the "hated and feared" sense... but certainly there'd be something to the idea of a guy who comes here as a child, is equally not-at-home in American culture as in his Kryptonian fortress, who is trying really hard to do the things he's been told are right and yet still gets misunderstanding and shade thrown his way.

I do agree that this could be tough to square with the messianic quality which certainly is part of the character's appeal: it's nice to think we have a guardian and a savior, but neither of those seem to make for flawed, complex, relatable characters. Potentially a better movie could be about ordinary people in a world where there is a Superman, but alternately you could say that the pathos of Superman is in his effort and his faith. If he's Jesus, it's Jesus at the moment of questioning what God is setting him up for. This is why the Flaming Lips go for the moment when something is too heavy for Superman to lift - we know without a doubt that he absolutely is trying his best and it is breaking his heart that he is failing. Oddly enough this is his closest connection to humble Spider-Man, whose most famous scenes revolve around the very same thing: trying to save Gwen, lifting up that pile of machinery with all the water streaming down, or in the movies, trying to save everybody on the train when Doc Ock is attacking. This is the kind of stuff that should slot into a Superman movie very easily, with Pa Kent standing in for Uncle Ben and some slight shifts in motive.

A totally different hook might be to do what the Fantastic Four films should have done and failed to do, and make it a brain-melting Grant Morrison sci-fi thing; Superman is one of the superheroes who can go on impossible quests to the centers of stars or between molecules and not have it seem like a weird graft. This would require actual imagination in the film-making though, to call upon CGI for something other than smashing up skyscrapers and alien robot guys or w/e.

lots of interesting possibilities in dr. c's post.

Even tho it made no sense and was a redundant device to sell toys, I always liked the design of Superman's punching rocket jet thing. How do you take three of the most superficial and easily graspable qualities of Superman and put those into a vehicle? You make it blue, fly really fast, and(this is the best part) give it really big fists for punching.

I have no problem with more Marvel Studios superhero films, as long as they focus on character and/or do the genre-within-genre thing that IM3 and Winter Soldier pulled off

I like the part of this movie where superman is trying to fly up to the spaceship and it's really hard and he can't do it for like 2 minutes but then he goes "rawrrr" and does it

Totally agree w dr c supes scifi angle, kal el as neil degrasse tyson

dr casino otm re superman = jesus, but jesus questioning his purpose. that for me is the appeal of superman. it's not what he can do with his powers so much as his powers giving him a false sense of self

Would love a film about Supes retiring from crimefighting and becoming host of The Late Show

I guess I can accept Superman being boring in the way that for me Super Mario World is also boring.

comic book stories feature absurd, inexplicable things (like a guy who can stop power locomotives)

these things totally happen in The King Canute Crowd and Who Will Cut My Hair and Minnie's 3rd Love

Super Mario World is also boring.

Out.

When's the last time you played it?

3 and 64 both much better but i mean, yoshi

the one thing that sticks in my mind is the ending, when Zod is shooting his heat blast at the family, and it is inching closer and closer to them, all while struggling in a headlock with Superman. physically it just wouldn't work like that, the heat blasts would be flying all over the wall. as it is Zod would have to stay stationary and veeeerrry slooowly turn his head towards the family, at fractions of an inch.

movie was full of dumb stuff but that was like cartoon logic.

Henry Cavill sucks

WHY DON'T YOU SAY IT TO MY COMPLETELY NORMAL FACE

https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/justice-league-henry-cavills-mouth-superman.jpg

This week's episode of Legends of Tomorrow sees Brandon Routh grow a moustache for spurious trivial plot reasons then try and disguise it for most of the episode by holding bits of paper in front of his face.

lol for real?

https://comicbook.com/dc/amp/2018/12/04/henry-cavill-mustache-brandon-routh-legends-tomorrow/

I should also point out Legends of Tomorrow is absolutely killing it this season.

heh, that's good

brandon routh really deserved a better shot at superman than superman returns :(

Ha, I look forward to seeing that when we catch up on the DC shows (halfway through last season so that's only collectively like...um, 100 episodes...jesus). I like him but he is such a dork on Legends that it's difficult to remember he was ever Superman.

I should also point out Legends of Tomorrow is absolutely killing it this season.

Couldn't agree more. The writers and actors are hitting a perfect tone of light and serious, and obviously having fun with plots requiring going undercover at Woodstock and at a summer camp. Best of the Berlanti crowd, by far.

Can i skip the earlier seasons and just start this one then?

Given that I've seen everything up to about a year ago and still strain my brain trying to remember how certain pieces wound up arrayed across the board in this particular arrangement, I'd go with 'no'. Although it's also total froth of no real consequence, so I might also go with 'yes'.

i could just dive right in, like i used to read comics!

Well, sure! I guess, yes, that approach probably isn't advisable for general audiences, but for life-long comic fans it's probably like sinking into a warm bath.

(If only they would occasionally have a '*See Arrow Season 4, Episode 15' text box pop up, the experience would be complete.)

https://news.avclub.com/ray-cyborg-fisher-now-refusing-to-be-in-any-movies-ma-1845970504?

This was not a good movie. But Superman learning to fly was fun, and I appreciated not being asked to laugh every thirty seconds.

It's possible that my low expectations helped out. I didn't even mind Superman shouting "noooo" while disappearing into skull-quicksand.

still nothing that tops Superman destroying dick bar patron's semi-truck off-screen and then chucking it on top of a telephone pole and nobody questioning it, like sometimes you find shoes on top of telephone poles, sometimes you find wrecked semi-trucks, nothing to see here folks

i was genuinely surprised by how great this movie was and will be arguing about it forever i guess

I'm on Brad's side, I find a lot of the criticism of this movie weird, as if Superman specifically is a sacrosanct character that can only be portrayed one way.

i just had a problem with Snyder's directorial style and storytelling.

Superman "killing" someone didn't really bother me so much. he should kill more people IMO

This is really good on that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Cy_Qlh7VM

i did appreciate that the action sequences that looked like handheld footage from a natural disaster. And Superman and Zod punching each other at Mach 3. And Jor-El was great. There was a lot to like, I just didn't think the end worked at all.