FWIW the 'research shows the readers don't want that' doctrine pretty much destroyed the NME, in terms of both readership and quality.
I don't think it's research so much as dollar votes and actual measurable metrics (i.e. hits)-- and I do think there is a lot more history of quality music writing in the UK tbh. There were far more music mags of note there, despite the smaller population.
(more defensiveness: fwiw, we don't trend toward embracing the lowest denominator anyway-- we write often about what we want to cover instead of waiting to sort out what readers might like, and we print lengthy reviews while everyone else is doing the opposite.)
― scottpl, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 19:56 (fourteen years ago) link
There were always plenty of "non-mainstream" singles in the poll, though
Sure, there were, but they were usually limited to tracks that had a physical release as a single, like on a 7-inch. Since not every band released stuff on 7-inch, there was an upper limit on how much overlap there could be with the albums.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 19:56 (fourteen years ago) link
top 5 selling albums of 1978:1 Saturday Night Fever - ost2 Grease - ost3 Fleetwood Mac - Rumours (#1 seller of 77!)4 Billy Joel - The Stranger5 Steely Dan - Aja
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 19:56 (fourteen years ago) link
btw, for anyone who followed my attempt to review 1000 2009 releases over twitter, here are the 10 highest ranking records on Pazz And Jop and why I didn’t end up reviewing them. dunno what some of these exactly say about my "worldview" or "how I hear music"
43. Allen Toussaint – The Bright MississippiN0nesuch hasn’t sent me an e-mail in five years. I literally have no concept whatsoever of what’s happening over there at any given time. I literally didn’t even know this record existed until today. I saw Allen at Bonnaroo and he was amazing. What can I say?
50. Vijay Iyer Trio – HistoricityEveryone was raving about this record around September. I tried at least five times to steal a leak on the internet but “universally acclaimed jazz record” doesn’t exactly get as many Rapidshare hits as 'important' stuff like “Japandroids demos.” I literally tried but COULDNT FIND a leak of this record. Jazz nerds need to step their internet game up. I probably should have reached out to the label, but I had like 300 other records to hear and it got lost in the shuffle. I ended up hearing a copy in laaaaate December as i was in the home stretch and didn't really have room for it.
72. The Black Crowes – Before The Frost… Until The FreezeIt’s the Black Crowes. I promptly judged this book by its leather fringe, patchouli-soaked cover and avoided it entirely. Is this good? I don't believe it.
73. Loudon Wainwright III – High Wide And Handsome: The Charlie Poole ProjectI respect his legacy and all but this dude’s stuff is like the Paste magazine jams that are just totally off my radar.
87. Buddy And Julie Miller – Written In ChalkThem too.
90. Built To Spill – There Is No EnemyBuilt To Spill make some of the most boring, uninteresting music I’ve ever heard. After hearing hundreds of bad indie rock bands that rip them off in 2009, the prospect of sitting through an album by them literally disgusted me. I was praying it would be just some probly-6.0-on-Pitchfork nineteenth album by some band people don’t care about anymore. But instead I was wrong and here we are.
94. Nellie McKay – Normal As Blueberry Pie: A Tribute To Doris DayI was bored just reading the title. What the fuck
103. Vic Chesnutt – At The CutR.I.P., dude. I still have no idea what your music sounds like.
115 Lee Fields & The Expressions – My WorldI bet I would have liked this. I never heard of it until now.
122. Franco & Le Tout Puissant OK Jazz – Francophonic, Vol 2I need to hear more jazz apparently
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link
1978 music consumers >>>>>>>> Pazz Joppers imo
more like Nick LOL
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 19:58 (fourteen years ago) link
quick think of 10 critically popular bands that broke after 1989 that aren't remotely "indie"
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:00 (fourteen years ago) link
xxp 43, 50, 72, and 90 are all over 140 characters.
― Hoisin Murphy (jaymc), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Green Day, System Of A Down, The Roots
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:03 (fourteen years ago) link
and with RATM you have 4
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:04 (fourteen years ago) link
U2
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:05 (fourteen years ago) link
oh wait, scratch that
pretty sure they broke before 1989
xpost haha
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:05 (fourteen years ago) link
The Prodigy
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link
PJ Harvey
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:07 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, she's folk, right
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:07 (fourteen years ago) link
nah she's blues
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link
i guess she's not a band, though
Do Outkast, Wu Tang, etc. count as bands?
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link
PJ Harvery is a band whose lead singer is Polly Jean Harvey, kind of like how Sade is a band fronted by Sade Adu.
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link
Harvery
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link
saying Green Day (or RATM) are not remotely indie reeks of massive revisionism.
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:10 (fourteen years ago) link
DOKKEN
― ('_') (omar little), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:10 (fourteen years ago) link
idk wtf is wrong with my typing today
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:10 (fourteen years ago) link
*crosses fingers in the hope that this thread devolves into a crazy bunch of posts about what is and isn't indie.*
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link
Mastodon, Queens Of The Stone Age, Dixie Chicks (or, if they're too early, Sharon Jones & The Dap Kings. Or Tinariwen. Or Kings Of Leon.)
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link
those nu metal and post grunge bands that sold shitloads arent remotely indie.Hootie as well.
― Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link
My Morning Jacket
indie - guitars, distortion, bad singingnot indie - a vagina
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Fluxblog on xhuxk's article:
This is an extraordinarily depressing essay by former Voice editor/professional contrarian Chuck Eddy. It’s like a guy who used to be principal of a high school getting really angry about the outcome of his old school’s student council election.
http://perpetua.tumblr.com/post/344479080/the-year-of-too-much-consensus
― kshighway (ksh), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Ha ha.
Oh wait, '89? I thought you meant '99. '89 is easy.
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Right, but they're not "critically popular."
― Hoisin Murphy (jaymc), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link
wow, there's a lot of discussion going on about xhuxk's essay on Tumblr.
see T0m E.'s Tumblr: http://tomewing.tumblr.com/
― kshighway (ksh), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, none of that is indie-rooted or appeals to indie kids. The only that applies I think is SOTD and they, you know, sucked.
― scottpl, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:16 (fourteen years ago) link
Kings Of Leon were definitely indie when they came out, could even make cases for QOTSA and maaaaybe Mastodon (though by there you're definitely into "non-indie that indie folks like").
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:16 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah but all three of those bands sounds different^^^!
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:17 (fourteen years ago) link
I refer you to my previous post.
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:18 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah but "a vagina" is your answer to everything
― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:18 (fourteen years ago) link
touche
― Vajazzle My Nazzle (HI DERE), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:19 (fourteen years ago) link
how long into our vessel reaches curvy colombian waters?
― ('_') (omar little), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:20 (fourteen years ago) link
My friend raises this interesting point...
if it's so terrible that indie rock is in the top 5, what SHOULD have been there? Like and I mean things that people could actually rally behind, not just random shit you like
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Tom Ewing: "It’s like when I first started blogging and I got the reputation of being fiercely pro-pop and anti-indie, and I played up to that a little bit, but what I was being contrary against was my immediate online vicinity."
THAT, my friends is indie guilt defined.
― ┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐ (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:22 (fourteen years ago) link
xpost
gucci mane seems to be getting a bit of attention online...
― Na'vi Girls (Need Love Too) (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link
whiney, is your friend scottpl?
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link
I can easily see The-Dream or Maxwell (neither of whom I like much, btw) finishing Top 5 in an earlier of era of P&J, Whiney. For starters.
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:24 (fourteen years ago) link
I think Tom's onto something here:
My point is that at the moment we have one very big taste-cluster and it’s centred on the Pitchfork Top 10. This is no fault of Pitchfork’s and indeed the editors and publisher should be very proud and happy about it. But there’s also no reason why competing large taste-clusters shouldn’t exist, large enough that P4K’s Top 10 only crosses over with 30% or 40% of the P&J Top 10.
― kshighway (ksh), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:25 (fourteen years ago) link
Neither The-Dream or Maxwell making the top 5 would really make my day, personally. The-Dream would especially be a case of P'n'J praising the album after the one they should have.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:26 (fourteen years ago) link
I think what finally made "New York State of Mind" finally click with me was hearing it in a bunch of different settings, it just sounded huge and anthemic - a quality that seems to have been missing from hip-hop for a while now (cue the autogoon crew popping up with dozens of refs to "anthemic" Gucci mixtape moments). I liked how bold and brash it sounded, that's all. Wasn't my single of the year, in fact it wasn't even top five. It just had a quality that a lot of other rap singles have been missing. I mean, all you guys complaining about swag, this isn't Jay's young man swag, this is "fuck you, I run this city" swag.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:43 AM (5 hours ago)
i know this will have already been addressed but it sounds awful like you're grading on a curve here - "well hip hop sucks and this is the only one i heard on the radio so i'll vote for this!" cool if you dig the big hook or whatever, but it's a failure as a rap song considering, you know, jay is a below-average rapper and he sounds as awful on this as he's sounded for the last five years. and tbh to everyone who acknowledges the song is fatally flawed but votes for it anyway: either listen to more singles or stop voting for singles
― guardian nagle (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:27 (fourteen years ago) link
"...sounds an awful lot like..."
I was actually wondering whether Glenn McDonald recruited metal voters! (Which would help explain that mysterious Mastodon/Baroness/Converge convergence between #18 and #24, which apparently nobody but me cares about.
I care very much. Both Mastodon and Baroness were high in my ballot. I think it's also remarkable that Sunn O))) (#42) beat out Them Crooked Vultures (#58), a band with considerable star power. Also:
Kylesa, Static Tensions (71)Cobalt, Gin (136)Slayer, World Painted Blood (160)
Still plenty of stadium rock with Muse, Wolfmother, Cheap Trick, Alice in Chains, Black Crowes, Pearl Jam, arguably Dinosaur Jr. I didn't even know about the Black Crowes album.
― Fastnbulbous, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:28 (fourteen years ago) link
also the closest analogy in an earlier top 5 to maxwell's album(cult r&b figure with some pop success finally makes another album) would be erykah badu at no. 5 last year, which wasn't that long ago.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:31 (fourteen years ago) link