Vampire Weekend; Arctic Monkeys of 2008?

xp to alfred imo "white sky" is like "cape cod kwassa kwassa" in that it has little hints of "meaning" -- specifically in the case of "white sky" the second verse ("the sins of pride and envy") -- but it functions as a portrait or a scene of upper-class white culture as told by a detached-- and as i read it, a cynical and bemused-- narrator. in general though what i said about "white sky" in my post was meant to frame their hook prowess as the main selling point of the band

otm

i don't buy that they're masters of the pop hook at all - i heard the whole of the first album, nothing stuck with me, and this is what i wrote about "horchata" on the jukebox, which is a bit more considered than the genuine hatred i have for them:

East Coast privilege should surely be a little bit more interesting than references to ethnic cuisine over a pale, prissy take on Jon Brion. “Horchata” is a woefully underwritten, melodically slight song that evokes nothing whatsoever; Vampire Weekend seem unable to funnel their precocity towards any sort of purpose, undermining their clever-cleverness somewhat.

i mean, yeah, what tipsy said earlier, it's all so slight and nothingy - it doesn't actually evoke upper-class privileged lifestyles, it's a bunch of signifiers that add up to nothing. i would agree w/cunga that they don't come across as authentically waspish or whatever, and i'd imagine that they'd just sound really weird to people who do live that lifestyle.

What lifestyle are you talking about? This seems to be the slippery bit here.

I don't know what to tell you lex, there were tons of hooks on the debut!

True. Not on the new one, though.

Actually I don't know why I'm bothering to argue this seeing as with Vampire Weekend you either:

- Like them and like their schtick, or find it endearing/evocative

- Like them and can overlook their annoying schtick while finding it occasionally evocative (ie me)

- Dislike both

But there is essentially nothing going on here that can enable people of persuasion 1 and 2 to explain to people of persuasion 3 what they like about it. It seems so obvious, but then it isn't. It's like trying to explain why watching people walking into a lamppost is funny.

watching people walking into lamp posts is not funny?

What if one of Vampire Weekend walked into a lamp post? Would you be conflicted?

remember all that stuff that i agreed w/ u about on the stylus thread wrt rnb lex? its pretty much the same reason u seem to have no clue bout indie rock

only if the lamppost was made of knives xp

but i do actually like indie rock when it's done well! it's not like i write off the entire genre. vampire weekend are no yeah yeah yeahs or xx or santogold tho.

They are actually quite a bit like Santogold.

i really like rnb when its done well! its not like i write off entire genre. cassie is not timbaland or neptunes tho

like, i don't see how you don't see that you are basically doing that madlib thing that tim f was on about

OK, so I know, right? has basically made the same point while I've been typing but anyway…

Lex, surely you must see an equivalence between your incomprehension/dislike of most indie-rock tropes and yelpy vocals and many indie fans' incomprehension/dislike of most R&B tropes and melisma, etc. Yet you persist in claiming that your blindspot is justified while the indie equivalent is a heinous crime bordering on racism. It's ridiculous.

santogold has a discernible personality at least xps

You also complained recently about people who like R&B when, or because, it reminds them of IDM or other non-R&B genres. Equally, you only like indie bands (generally female fronted) who eschew most indie mannerisms. Same thing.

I was going to point out that of his list of "indie rock" bands he liked, the majority of them pull influence from far outside the typical indie rock world.

what if i dislike vampire weekend because they remind me of the dave matthews band? does that get us sufficiently far out of the indie ghetto?

it's all so slight and nothingy - it doesn't actually evoke upper-class privileged lifestyles, it's a bunch of signifiers that add up to nothing.

big signposts words like "horchata" and "benneton" are red herrings set up by the band imo -- when they want to evoke upper-class privileged lifestyles -- like they do in "white sky" --- the writing is much more abstract and artistic

a big part of why i like this band is that i was midway thru a tibor kalman/benneton ad obsession when the first album hit and just that reference on capecodkk made them immediately feel like an aural equiv

criticisms about their arrangements are valid i think -- that would be an argument about taste that would be pointless -- but i will say again that i think discussions such as these help to underrate them as musicians qua musicians -- songs like "m79" and "horchata" operate on a musical level above nearly every other indie-- and especially "mannered" pop indie bands like grizzly bear and dirty projectors-- act on VW's level

I don't totally get what makes Vampire Weekend indie outside the fact it gets reviewed in Pitchfork. It's really hooky, poppy and has what sounds to me like a bunch of pop-punk/ska sounds in it. The concert really reminded me of a ska show (I went to a ton as a teenager) and the band members even did some pogo'ing at one point. I even caught one person skanking so...

xpost. VW signposts aren't really signposts at all if they're not widely known. If I wanted to evoke WASPy privilege there are things I'd reach for before horchata, the oxford comma and mansard roofs (all of which I had to look up, by the way). Their vocabulary is so playfully arcane - it's not "about" any one thing.

Arrangement on M79 is tremendous.

Equally, you only like indie bands (generally female fronted) who eschew most indie mannerisms

= who can sing in tune

Ezra definitely sings in tune. That's not even up for debate.

I think Dorian's post is kind of OTM and also kind of unfair in that a) the Lex obviously does this and b) ALL critics do this in ways they often don't acknowledge, usually because they don't make it so visible.

If I were Alex I'd avoid talking about indie music *at all* in print, or even on the internet, because the alternative, while fine when you're a young writer, puts you directly on the path to becoming some kind of ranting Simon Reynolds-style King Canute tosser, and no one wants that.

and they use Auto-Tune!

Equally, you only like indie bands (generally female fronted) who eschew most indie mannerisms

= who can sing in tune

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:19 AM (32 seconds ago)

"i like the roots bc at least they play real instruments"

"These rappers can't sing or play an instrument. They're just talking over other people's records."

i dunno tho, i spose if this was a load of fuckers from donnybrook or belvedere knockin on abt trinners and kilreekil i'd wanna gouge their eyes out, but gilmore girls etc have made this a fairy tale place where goodlooking ppl get ivy league scholarships

That's probably why The Thrills sang about Santa Cruz and not Blackrock.

dorian i'm gonna go to bed bc this thread doesn't need both of us

horchata is a mexican rice drink

No, I'm going to bed. You're better at this.

But one last thing…

"I think Dorian's post is kind of OTM and also kind of unfair in that a) the Lex obviously does this and b) ALL critics do this in ways they often don't acknowledge, usually because they don't make it so visible."

I don't think that's true, though. Like anybody I have my preferences but I don't turn attack-dog on anyone who doesn't like my favourite genres. It's crazy to expect your own prejudices to be echoed by everyone else. What I don't understand is why lex doesn't revel in his passionately held, nonconsensual tastes - enjoy the fact that he doesn't like the same records as every other critic - rather than throwing a fit when a P4K poll overlooks Cassie or whoever.

Sorry, this thread is about VW, not lex. I'll stop now.

i dunno tho, i spose if this was a load of fuckers from donnybrook or belvedere knockin on abt trinners and kilreekil i'd wanna gouge their eyes out, but gilmore girls etc have made this a fairy tale place where goodlooking ppl get ivy league scholarships

That's probably why The Thrills sang about Santa Cruz and not Blackrock.

― ecuador_with_a_c, Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:22 AM (3 minutes ago)

wait who are you, like i know you're around 4e but

xp mordy otm, they're only indie insofar as they're on an indie label

one qualm i have with the new album is some of the songs seem too short. i keep waiting for a bridge but they never come; i figure it's gotta be a deliberate aesthetic choice but i can get with the "underwritten" criticism in that respect. it's nothing that ruins the record for me tho, the hooks and arrangements make up for it

xp lex ezra is pretty objectively a good singer imo, that's not gonna work

its kindof an example of how indie as a discourse swallows what it likes in this weird way (ive been shot down on this board for liking sugababes bc they were indie but diff times i guess) so that i think a big part of indie music's critical hegemony is partly due to the fact that a lot of what indie music likes or adopts gets relabelled indie (i mean VW is kinda from more of a soft rock via phil collins dad rock lineage maybe which isn't the british invasion>punk>indie continuum)

turning this whole thing into a referendum on indie rock or lex's alienation from it seems deeply unfair to both indie rock and lex. it is entirely possible to both know and like a whole lot of indie rock and still think vampire weekend is sort of terrible. just as it's possible to like a lot of indie rock and psych rock and tribal-brother-love-freak-rock and think merriweather post pavilion is bollocks. nobody has to like vampire weekend to like "indie rock," thank god.

Like no one would call Paul Simon indie or an indie forefather and they're clearly influenced heavily by Graceland.

pual simon, indie as fuk

yeah i did want to put a disclaimer into my posts that it wasn't specifically bc lex doesn't like this or MPP but bc most of his objections to indie rock seem to be based on stuff like distortion, atonality and DIY aesthetics which seems like h8ing on techno for being repetitive

The problem isn't that lex dislikes Vampire Weekend, the problem is that his reasons just aren't jiving with reality (i.e. Ezra can't sing on tune, which is patently untrue) and that lex is throwing up the same kind of arguments that seem to throw him into a tizzy when used as reasons why someone may not like rnb.

i'm usually with lex on these kinds of things i think, which is why i'm so baffled that he hates them so much. i agree micachu should be thrown down a flight of stairs but like, the dudes in VW can legitimately write hooks and sing in tune and are capable of skilled arrangements

just like dave matthews...

um don't u like of montreal?

xp

by and large I can't stand Animal Collective, and have written so many times, but still think lex isn't expressing himself very well.

um don't u like of montreal?

xp

― plaxico (I know, right?), Monday, January 18, 2010 7:38 PM (1 minute ago)

yeah and i'd say the same about them... ?