Vampire Weekend; Arctic Monkeys of 2008?

pretty sure nobody who would understand the 1st part of that post is gonna read it

im gonna say this as a v not irl wasp type but i like to think i've seen enough oc eps to footnote. there's this bit in middlesex by jeffrey eugenides where he visits one of his old-money type friend's house for the first time and he says something abt how everything seemed like it had been carefully bought with good taste and that they just had to live in it now and i think they do have this breezy feeling of everything being so easy, u kno young and rich and the world at our fingertips and "we just have to drop a few names here and there so u know what page ur on FYI." and man its seductive like i just wanna hang with these guys

I think the one of the things usually missed about VW is that they're coming from the same perspective: as outsiders looking in on the lifestyle and being sort of fascinated by it.

I don't know what kind of class background they come from (Ezra Koenig has refused to give me his family's finical records numerous times) but on more than one occasion they've alluded to coming from backgrounds no different than other indie rockers and musicians.

If you're already on the "inside" of a cultural scene you don't have to know all the of latest shibboleths and passwords -- because you're already set and you feel entitled to belong there. The fact that Vampire Weekend spends so much time getting all the details right about the rich prep/wasp lifestyle is indicative that they're outsiders/poseurs who were close to the culture, and then took a sort of interest in it but only as outsiders. It's when you're in it but not of it that you take such a curious or ironic view of the lifestyle. The genuine rich kids that people assume Vampire Weekend to be usually have no idea.

"as outsiders looking in on the lifestyle and being sort of fascinated by it. "

^^^^ Especially true I think on "White Sky" and "Taxicab," with the former's subject looking up at buildings and imagining the interiors and who might live there, and the line on the latter about pretending to be horrified by a uniform. That second line I'm having a hard time putting into words, but to me it sounds like all kinds of layers of self-awareness and class-consciousness and awkward upward mobility, like an actual "WASP" or whatever might not blink at a valet or a doorman but an interloper might feel some need to feign discomfort so as to appear more legit.

thread filled with lots of discussion about class signifiers = music lacks serious jams IMO

Every time I walk past the university library I wonder who's in there, and whether they're reading about class signifiers.

thread filled with lots of discussion about class signifiers = music lacks serious jams IMO

― Na'vi Girls (Need Love Too) (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, January 18, 2010 10:08 PM (9 minutes ago)

nah i'd put it more in the strokes/phoenix zone of "this seems like nothing special in its constituent parts but it adds up to something way more"

strokes at least had the good sense to rip off tom petty

Strokes never ripped off class signifiers.

class signifiers are always fun discussion - one question as yet unasked here - do new england bluebloods have a culture worth being fascinated by - a: fuck god no

next vampire weekend album should be a concept album based on "the world according to garp"

http://www.personism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/porter-july.jpg

http://www.mitchmagee.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/katz.jpg

http://errolflynn.my-king.com/header/hussey1.jpg

http://www.gilmoregirlsnews.com/files/2009/04/gilmore-girls-magic-to-do-06.jpg

"Vampire Weekend's music is rich white America's CNN" - Chuck D

i said this when "horchata" was released but THIS BAND IS TROLLING people like the lex -- w/ this album they've distilled what people hate about them and put them right out in front -- rhyming things like "horchata" and "balaclava" and having a chorus like "white sky" where he's whooping in his super high, needly falsetto -- and what it signifies to me -- and this is something i love about them -- is that they're very self-aware and cynical about the culture & criticism that surrounds them. i truly believe that they just want to be themselves -- want to wear polo and bite african music and wear phish t-shirts (and, i'm sure, adobe slabs for their girls) -- and that they disarm the intense bile of people like the lex by playing the joke on them -- i mean who would genuinely write a lyric like "lil jon, he always tells the truth".

and anyway, their music transcends all of this because it's great pop. rostam is a remarkable musician-- in two different pitchfork.tv things, the guy has written string arrangements on the spot for musicians who it seems like they just pulled in on the day of filming. and, as kevin & other people have said, they write amazing hooks, which is why it doesn't matter if he's singing "who gives a fuck about an oxford comma" or, on "white sky", literally nothing

^^^^

booming post

wait are you british kevin?

I don't know -- "White Sky" is about something. It reminds me of those Eno ambient tracks like "Drift"; the title reflects what the song sounds like.

one conundrum for me is that i like both of the very best's v.w. songs ("warm heart of africa" and their version of "cape cod kwassa kwassa") a lot better than any actual v.w. songs. i don't even mind ezra's voice on "warm heart." i don't love it, but it doesn't get in the way of the rest of the song enough to put me off. which makes me think again that v.w.'s problem -- or my problem with v.w. -- is really mostly in their grooves. and i say this as a defender of sublime, fr god's sake. there's a difference between light and lite, or sprightly and Sprite-ly, and vampire weekend's on the wrong side to my ears. listen to the difference between the original groove of "cape cod" and what the very best mix does with it, and that's pretty much my problem with v.w. in a nutshell.

Talking about the music in a Vampire Weekend thread is technically derailing, Mr. Mothra.

xp to alfred imo "white sky" is like "cape cod kwassa kwassa" in that it has little hints of "meaning" -- specifically in the case of "white sky" the second verse ("the sins of pride and envy") -- but it functions as a portrait or a scene of upper-class white culture as told by a detached-- and as i read it, a cynical and bemused-- narrator. in general though what i said about "white sky" in my post was meant to frame their hook prowess as the main selling point of the band

otm

i don't buy that they're masters of the pop hook at all - i heard the whole of the first album, nothing stuck with me, and this is what i wrote about "horchata" on the jukebox, which is a bit more considered than the genuine hatred i have for them:

East Coast privilege should surely be a little bit more interesting than references to ethnic cuisine over a pale, prissy take on Jon Brion. “Horchata” is a woefully underwritten, melodically slight song that evokes nothing whatsoever; Vampire Weekend seem unable to funnel their precocity towards any sort of purpose, undermining their clever-cleverness somewhat.

i mean, yeah, what tipsy said earlier, it's all so slight and nothingy - it doesn't actually evoke upper-class privileged lifestyles, it's a bunch of signifiers that add up to nothing. i would agree w/cunga that they don't come across as authentically waspish or whatever, and i'd imagine that they'd just sound really weird to people who do live that lifestyle.

What lifestyle are you talking about? This seems to be the slippery bit here.

I don't know what to tell you lex, there were tons of hooks on the debut!

True. Not on the new one, though.

Actually I don't know why I'm bothering to argue this seeing as with Vampire Weekend you either:

- Like them and like their schtick, or find it endearing/evocative

- Like them and can overlook their annoying schtick while finding it occasionally evocative (ie me)

- Dislike both

But there is essentially nothing going on here that can enable people of persuasion 1 and 2 to explain to people of persuasion 3 what they like about it. It seems so obvious, but then it isn't. It's like trying to explain why watching people walking into a lamppost is funny.

watching people walking into lamp posts is not funny?

What if one of Vampire Weekend walked into a lamp post? Would you be conflicted?

remember all that stuff that i agreed w/ u about on the stylus thread wrt rnb lex? its pretty much the same reason u seem to have no clue bout indie rock

only if the lamppost was made of knives xp

but i do actually like indie rock when it's done well! it's not like i write off the entire genre. vampire weekend are no yeah yeah yeahs or xx or santogold tho.

They are actually quite a bit like Santogold.

i really like rnb when its done well! its not like i write off entire genre. cassie is not timbaland or neptunes tho

like, i don't see how you don't see that you are basically doing that madlib thing that tim f was on about

OK, so I know, right? has basically made the same point while I've been typing but anyway…

Lex, surely you must see an equivalence between your incomprehension/dislike of most indie-rock tropes and yelpy vocals and many indie fans' incomprehension/dislike of most R&B tropes and melisma, etc. Yet you persist in claiming that your blindspot is justified while the indie equivalent is a heinous crime bordering on racism. It's ridiculous.

santogold has a discernible personality at least xps

You also complained recently about people who like R&B when, or because, it reminds them of IDM or other non-R&B genres. Equally, you only like indie bands (generally female fronted) who eschew most indie mannerisms. Same thing.

I was going to point out that of his list of "indie rock" bands he liked, the majority of them pull influence from far outside the typical indie rock world.

what if i dislike vampire weekend because they remind me of the dave matthews band? does that get us sufficiently far out of the indie ghetto?

it's all so slight and nothingy - it doesn't actually evoke upper-class privileged lifestyles, it's a bunch of signifiers that add up to nothing.

big signposts words like "horchata" and "benneton" are red herrings set up by the band imo -- when they want to evoke upper-class privileged lifestyles -- like they do in "white sky" --- the writing is much more abstract and artistic

a big part of why i like this band is that i was midway thru a tibor kalman/benneton ad obsession when the first album hit and just that reference on capecodkk made them immediately feel like an aural equiv

criticisms about their arrangements are valid i think -- that would be an argument about taste that would be pointless -- but i will say again that i think discussions such as these help to underrate them as musicians qua musicians -- songs like "m79" and "horchata" operate on a musical level above nearly every other indie-- and especially "mannered" pop indie bands like grizzly bear and dirty projectors-- act on VW's level

I don't totally get what makes Vampire Weekend indie outside the fact it gets reviewed in Pitchfork. It's really hooky, poppy and has what sounds to me like a bunch of pop-punk/ska sounds in it. The concert really reminded me of a ska show (I went to a ton as a teenager) and the band members even did some pogo'ing at one point. I even caught one person skanking so...

xpost. VW signposts aren't really signposts at all if they're not widely known. If I wanted to evoke WASPy privilege there are things I'd reach for before horchata, the oxford comma and mansard roofs (all of which I had to look up, by the way). Their vocabulary is so playfully arcane - it's not "about" any one thing.

Arrangement on M79 is tremendous.

Equally, you only like indie bands (generally female fronted) who eschew most indie mannerisms

= who can sing in tune

Ezra definitely sings in tune. That's not even up for debate.

I think Dorian's post is kind of OTM and also kind of unfair in that a) the Lex obviously does this and b) ALL critics do this in ways they often don't acknowledge, usually because they don't make it so visible.

If I were Alex I'd avoid talking about indie music *at all* in print, or even on the internet, because the alternative, while fine when you're a young writer, puts you directly on the path to becoming some kind of ranting Simon Reynolds-style King Canute tosser, and no one wants that.

and they use Auto-Tune!

Equally, you only like indie bands (generally female fronted) who eschew most indie mannerisms

= who can sing in tune

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:19 AM (32 seconds ago)

"i like the roots bc at least they play real instruments"

"These rappers can't sing or play an instrument. They're just talking over other people's records."