h8 when people talk abt fontz
― supra-max (ice cr?m), Monday, 18 January 2010 00:55 (fourteen years ago) link
I knew this would turn clusterfucky.
― Mordy, Monday, 18 January 2010 00:55 (fourteen years ago) link
random ppl: "hey maybe music writers have a few biases"defensive bros: "no we dont, why am i not allowed to not listen to what i dont want to listen to, get out of my head"thelex: "u are the devil"
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 00:57 (fourteen years ago) link
the other thing abt this band is how their two most quoted couplets have to do w/obscure drinks and garments and its supposed to represent their whole much discussed class signifiers thing - but isnt that just knowing what things are called
yeah the thing with them is that there's nothing to them EXCEPT knowing what things are called, which as you say isn't even a big deal, so...there's nothing to care about. at least corral your class signifiers into some sort of narrative or emotional situation that actually makes me give a shit, you know? also, slit your throat so you can never sing again, singer dude
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 18 January 2010 00:59 (fourteen years ago) link
there is basically no way that anyone w/decent aesthetic standards should be able to get past THOSE LYRICS and THAT VOICE
der kommissar's in town UH UH.
― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 18 January 2010 00:59 (fourteen years ago) link
I kinda dig those lyrics btw -- tho some of that definitely has to do with the delivery.
― Mordy, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:01 (fourteen years ago) link
I've consistently taken some of lex's wilder rantings with a grain of salt, but I think I can now safely cross him off the list of critics worth spending time on.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Who knew in 2010 I'd be stan-ning for the hot indie album??
― Mordy, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:02 (fourteen years ago) link
I mean maybe try and at least form some sort of coherent argument beyond "fuck this shit is awful and you are a person with no taste for liking this".
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:03 (fourteen years ago) link
Thx to magic sci-fi Zing app I'm at vampire weekend show right now
― Mordy, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:04 (fourteen years ago) link
Although there *have* been some penetrating insights from a few posters, I can't help thinking I've exacerbated precisely what I was complaining about, way beyond the level it had been at previously
...ach, it's only Vampire Weekend. We'll live.
― Do the english boil pizza? (acoleuthic), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:05 (fourteen years ago) link
Wise move (and no, I am not remotely a Vampire Weekend fan).
Although, this just confirms for me how quickly these discussions can come down irreducible matters of taste. One person thinks the Vampire Weekend guy's voice sucks, another thinks Rihanna's voice sucks, and another thinks both their voices suck.
― _Rudipherous_, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:07 (fourteen years ago) link
This is true and I shouldn't be surprised by this, but I always hope for better out of ILM - this is why I love reading the board and why I step back form in-depth discussions (because I rarely feel I can add value). I would rather read lex say "this sucks and I hate his awful voice" than read that I'm less of a person for not agreeing with his taste.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:10 (fourteen years ago) link
ANYWAY.
scott pgw heard Simon's "Crazy Love Pt. II" in "White Sky." I hear The Rhythm of the Saints' "Proof."
― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:13 (fourteen years ago) link
I would rather read lex say "this sucks and I hate his awful voice" than read that I'm less of a person for not agreeing with his taste.
According to some of his comments on another thread, you also hate life if (forced to make the choice) you'd rather listen to music that's already been made than music that hasn't yet been made.
― _Rudipherous_, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:17 (fourteen years ago) link
would def rather hear intemperate opinions than people bitching abt them
― supra-max (ice cr?m), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:22 (fourteen years ago) link
People who would rather hear intemperate opinions than people bitching about them are the lowest of the low.
― _Rudipherous_, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Oh ffs, I was just calling lex on some bullshit.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:23 (fourteen years ago) link
people who would rather hear intemperate opinions than people bitching about them have incredible swag
― supra-max (ice cr?m), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:24 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah the thing with them is that there's nothing to them EXCEPT knowing what things are called, which as you say isn't even a big deal, so...there's nothing to care about. at least corral your class signifiers into some sort of narrative or emotional situation that actually makes me give a shit, you know?
This is distortive obv. It's like saying that because people quote Ciara comparing her body to a hamburger clearly all she can write about is sex and popular consumerism.
Trying to "corral (their) class signifiers into some sort of narrative or emotional situation that actually makes (people) give a shit" is a bit of a hallmark of this album actually.
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:24 (fourteen years ago) link
Although (in line with Deej's comments above) I get the impression that this is one aim about which they're not particularly bothered as to whether they're successful or not. Making you feel their pain is def. not VW's Number 1 goal.
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:34 (fourteen years ago) link
One of their charms is that they don't "feel" pain. Like I said upthread, they're so observant and young that if they've got any staying power at all there's still time for them to show the consequences of their ambivalent relationship with their class. I kinda hope they DON'T though -- we need more American bands with the sensibilities of Isherwood and Vidal; I prefer VW as brittle commentators.
― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:36 (fourteen years ago) link
elsewhere i've negatively compared them to artists like fiona apple and nellie mckay, who have just as many privileged signifiers in their lyrics and are as self-consciously clever, but the thing is in both cases there is no "ambivalent relationship with their class" because they're just a lot more interesting (not to say a gazillion times more skilled as performers - honestly VW are just WEAK at delivering whatever it is they're aiming for)
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:43 (fourteen years ago) link
'but the thing is in both cases there is no "ambivalent relationship with their class" because they're just a lot more interesting'
don't see how this follows?
― jabba hands, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:46 (fourteen years ago) link
Why is having no ambivalent relationship to your class better than having one?
― Mordy, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:50 (fourteen years ago) link
no "ambivalent relationship with their class" because they're just a lot more interesting
What is the relationship between being an interesting performer and having "no ambivalent relationship with the performer's class"?
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 18 January 2010 01:53 (fourteen years ago) link
Lex yr argument seems to be to justify a particular observation with a general assertion: "fiona apple's relationship with class is not ambivalent b/c she's interesting".
This is not a persuasive argument, it's like saying "this chocolate is not very rich-tasting because it is good."
To convince people you've got to swap the order around.
Xpost obv.
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:54 (fourteen years ago) link
i meant that that's not all they had - i don't feel there's much more to vampire weekend (and judging from how much of the conversation is about their class (cf how this wasn't the case for fiona apple), others feel the same way), and i don't find it that interesting
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:55 (fourteen years ago) link
and as has already been pointed out, VW don't express their relationship with their class in any deeper terms than "knowing what things are called"
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 18 January 2010 01:56 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm not really a fan of Vampire Weekend, but I think the fans are just as -- or more -- connected to the band's blend of Afropop and indie rock than they are in how the band comments on their economic and social class in their lyrics/vibe.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 18 January 2010 01:58 (fourteen years ago) link
Fiona Apple doesn't count because she is female obv - 90% of music criticism that "plays the man" rather than the music so to speak boils down to:
1) Am I like these people
2) Would I be friends with these people
3) Would I date / marry / sexually exploit these people.
Ad hominem Fiona Apple crit usually fell into category 3 so class categories recede into the background.
Although that's not the case with Lily Allen and M.I.A. partly b/c class is so much more central to UK crit (plus M.I.A. has race/culture angles which are important to US crit) - this hyper-focus on class/race issues in the music crit doesn't undermine their worth as performers I don't think.
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 01:59 (fourteen years ago) link
Honestly Lex how would you listen to them enough to know???
And really the whole class issue is as much as red herring as "M.I.A.'s relationship with the revolutionary third world proletariat" is.
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 02:00 (fourteen years ago) link
actually i find all this interesting because i'm basically with lex but it interests me that people with "tastes" that are in other ways often convergent with mine can at all tolerate vampire weekend, much less venerate them. it makes me curious about where the precise demarcations are -- what are the specific things that make me recoil, or that draw other people in, etc. his voice and lyrics are definitely part of it, but i think they may also be a little misleading -- i think it may have more to do with the rhythm and the grooves. i'm basically a big globo-pop guy, i love m.i.a. and manu chao and amadou & mariam -- sometimes diplo! -- and even other american apers like antibalas and nomo. so theoretically i should by sympathetic to v.w.'s whole shtick AND YET ... i find them hugely offputting. it's not just the preciousness (i heart stuart murdoch, so...), and it's not the presumption. i think ivy league white boys can and should try their hand at whatever they feel like, as much as anyone else. it's just the execution. there's something so facile about the whole project, so thimble-deep not just in their ideas but in their relationship to their own music, that it mostly sounds to me like small rocks skipping across a small stream. and not skipping far, either -- the disappointing kind of throws where no matter how you angle it, you get two jumps and a plop. i don't see a way into this music for myself. i don't hear or feel anything to make me stick around. but the fact that other people do, i mean, i allow the possibility that it's simply not on my wavelength. but boy is it not.
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Monday, 18 January 2010 02:00 (fourteen years ago) link
I do sympathize with that opinion, which was basically my response to the first album.
― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 18 January 2010 02:01 (fourteen years ago) link
there's something so facile about the whole project, so thimble-deep not just in their ideas but in their relationship to their own music, that it mostly sounds to me like small rocks skipping across a small stream. and not skipping far, either -- the disappointing kind of throws where no matter how you angle it, you get two jumps and a plop.
YES. so well put.
if you remember the ilx poll thread from last year i spent a good portion of it in disbelieving tears of laughter as i looked up more and more of their lyrics
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 18 January 2010 02:02 (fourteen years ago) link
its pretty funny how throwing on a blazer has rendered this pleasant minor band who play a style of music no one really listens to anymore worth having strong opinions abt
and as someone who grew up in an affluent boston suburb i can definitively state that their stance is clearly playful and not irl wasp shit
― ice cr?m, Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:21 PM (3 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
imo vampire weekend have pretty good songs - but really who wants to talk abt that
― supra-max (ice cr?m), Monday, 18 January 2010 02:03 (fourteen years ago) link
If I can stomach Coloma lyrics I can certainly stomach Vampire Weekend lyrics.
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 02:06 (fourteen years ago) link
By contrast "stars are blind" was a lyrical masterwork, I guess.
― Mordy, Monday, 18 January 2010 02:14 (fourteen years ago) link
I think it's always a mistake to discuss lyrics in isolation in any genre of music (unless it's like offensive pro-nazi stuff etc.) - I could never be a Tori Amos fan if I thought "I wonder how this reads in isolation" every time I listened to her, compared to that Vampire Weekend look like a model of lyrical respectability.
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 02:16 (fourteen years ago) link
I mean even when people are posting long stretches of gucci freestyles it's not like the idea is to judge them with no regard to the actual performance.
Cue Lex saying "but I hate dude's voice too" - sure, but now we're talking about how all of your own general tastes intersect to make this band dislikeable to you, not why they are objectively hellspawn.
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 02:17 (fourteen years ago) link
I could never be a Tori Amos fan if I thought "I wonder how this reads in isolation" every time I listened to her
call me when v.w. write their "me and a gun." (i.e. i get what you're saying but let's not go overboard.)
― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Monday, 18 January 2010 02:18 (fourteen years ago) link
like 99% of lyrics look dumb printed
― supra-max (ice cr?m), Monday, 18 January 2010 02:19 (fourteen years ago) link
objectively, they have a number one album in the us and england
― tramp steamer, Monday, 18 January 2010 02:20 (fourteen years ago) link
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:02 PM (38 minutes ago)
dude you're better than this, come on. you can't judge lyrics just by looking at them on paper; besides, i basically see a lot of the lyrics you'd object to as pretty obvious hater-trolling.
― guardian nagle (k3vin k.), Monday, 18 January 2010 02:41 (fourteen years ago) link
as usual ppl just be overthinking shit like crazy, theyre a talented band who write good, hooky songs
― guardian nagle (k3vin k.), Monday, 18 January 2010 02:43 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah but if VW wrote lyrics like "tuna, rubber, a little blubber in my igloo... timmy and that purple monkey are all down at Bobby's house making themselves pesters and jesters and lesters and my traitors of kind", Lex would point and laugh and say "see this proves they are objectively awful."
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 02:55 (fourteen years ago) link
i.e. the Boney Joan rule applies in favour of Vampire Weekend as much as it does any other music.
― Tim F, Monday, 18 January 2010 03:08 (fourteen years ago) link
solid voice-of-reason shit that will get totally drowned out.
― call all destroyer, Monday, 18 January 2010 05:02 (fourteen years ago) link
its true i hate thinking about things
― jabba hands, Monday, 18 January 2010 05:17 (fourteen years ago) link
Number 3 in the UK. So unless Florence & The Machine's sales were heavily Wales-biased or something, no.
― if, Monday, 18 January 2010 08:07 (fourteen years ago) link