Vampire Weekend; Arctic Monkeys of 2008?

Relevantly to this discussion, Nabisco and I had a disagreement back in 2001 over whether the return to live-ness in rock constituted by The Strokes, Life Without Buildings and oh probably some other bands constituted a "new" or at least very important thing.

I was sort of on (what I would imagine to be) your side with regard to that issue Louis, arguing that this apparent transformation of the indie rock landscape was just a perspectival trick and was more about a small shift in the discourse of rock crit than a change in the substantive music.

So I'm not inclined to dismiss all "the emperor has no clothes!" arguments when it comes to "progress".

Nabisco was partly right though in that, while there are always records in every style, the way in which discourse sbapes itself around certain concurrent stylistic tendencies allows those records to punch above their weight in our collective and personal conceptions of what a genre (esp. one as amorphous as "indie rock") means or stands for at any given point in time.

Vampire Weekend are part of what feels a bit like a tidal ebb in the other direction for rock crit discourse (and hence which records count as important in the indie-rock landscape), which is now more in favour of eclectic maximalist overproduction than it has been at any time since pre-The Stokes. There were records in both of these categories (and at every point in between) throughout this whole period, of course.

To tie it all back together, one thing I like about this incarnation of the over-production aesthetic, if we can call it that, is that it's been decoupled from the stylistic emphasis on pomp and grandeur that seemed so rife in inde-rock at the end of the 90s - even on winsome records like The Soft Bulletin. So Contra is widescreen without being "widescreen" as such.

In this it reminds me quite a bit (though only slightly on a strict stylistic level) of The Beta Band's excellent The Hot Shots II.

Tim, you'd really call Vampire Weekend over-produced? Maximalist? Really?

No -- he said VW incarnate that aesthetic.

Ahh, you're right. Misread it. And I think Tim makes good points, now that I understand what he's getting at.

Yeah, to be precise, VW benefit from the critical endorsement of that aesthetic, but one of the nice things about them is their lightness of touch - Contra has a much cleaner and less cluttered approach than, say, Merriweather Post Pavillion or Oracular Spectacular or the new Yeasayer or etc. etc.

or they just don't do as much drugs as the hippies

Well that's maybe the root cause, though generally the equivs of preppie dudes at my school did much more (and more hardcore) drugs than the hippies did.

Yeah, they manage to sound maximalist without actually being maximalist. I see what you're saying.

one thing that kinda struck me abt this while i was enjoying a fukkin harpsichord solo was how this is so effective bcuz it feels so external & so much about style, and that this is why i like it -- harpsichord solo strikes me as a kind of wes anderson emotional heart-on-sleeve seriousness that is so blahahahha right now when i hear indie & v weekend's distance & affectedness means they're less ... i dont know ... not 'honest' but less trying to convey this idea of total openness, its guarded music, it feels cool & outward-facing rather than inward & emo

maybe this is obvious shit to ppl who listen to this stuff all the time but i like that these dudes have for a lack of a better word swag

harpsichord solo SHOULD strike me that way -- but in v weekend's case it doesnt

How is style "external"? Or am I misunderstanding you? Style, as I define it, is an expression of personality.

well of course -- im saying that their style feels more outward-facing & guarded & engaged w/ the outside world instead of the sort of unapologetic 1000 hugs from lightning bugs confessional indie style i usually associate w/ dudes who are 'precious' & have harpsichord solos

i like that they are unapologetically oblique & guarded & aiming for sounding 'cool' instead of being all 'we r modern bros always revealing our ''true feelings''' which is just as much of a front, but it pretends it isnt

h8 vampy w/e

Tim, your long post there has actively made me want to listen to this album, and not (just) because of the Hot Shots II comparison (a crisper, tidier indie-rock album than most, and one I adore). Much as some stylistic maximalisation is to my taste (albeit more with song-structure than sonic clutter...or at least more with sonic contrast than sonic multiplicity), there's something about an ambitious and boldly-realised yet slightly...austere, uncluttered piece of music that greatly appeals. If VW embody this to some extent I'd really quite like to hear the new album. I doubt I'll be moved to analyse it deeply or work out what its existence means to the wider world of indie-rock (my two complaints here) but if it works as art, as entertainment, then I'll be happy we had this discussion.

I think Deej is talking about austerity too. Music which is aware of its own limitations, or rather its own purpose?

entry leveler ^^^^

jesus its just a chill album dude dont overthink it

many x-posts - Is Wes Anderson emotional heart-on-sleeve seriousness?

r|t|c complained upthread (w/r/t the first album) that he enjoyed VW until he realised they reminded him of Darjeeling et. al. I can see the argument for both being kind of whimsically affected.

Is yr argument that Vampire Weekend don't hit you over the head with their lightness-concealing-depth strategy in the same manner as Wes or (music-wise) Jon Brion?

For me the other distinction might be that VW don't tap into that (very indie) childlikeness-as-emotional-authenticity idea that Anderson def. does. Like, when VW are being heartfelt "emotional", it's in the same adult way as every other pose.

I think I read you rightly, given the Owl City ref.

that last point you made is what im trying to say

i guess i didnt associate it solely with childlikeness/infantalism thing tho that does enter into it

the real advantage of an ivy league education (sorry, wes)

i just never get the feeling that they're trying to aim for next level shit, they're just carving out a space that sounds like **themselves** in a unique, stylized way & doesnt try to front on being progressive, nor is it on some 'back to basics' shit, its actually kind of what i like about my favorite rap performers (quik) or R&B stars (maxwell) from last year, the idea that real 'progress' can come just as easily from becoming yourself rather than consciously trying to push things "forward"

not that i like it as much as those artists by any means -- but it works in the same way imo

Multiple x-post again - Well it's complex. Obv Wes has the arch wry adultness that we ("we"?) associate with VW. But there's always a moment in his films where it's like "but seriously, what if we just dropped all that and held hands, wouldn't life be better and much simpler?"

Whereas I think VW like the arch wry adultness, they don't perceive it as a Weberian cage so much.

right yeah that their art is kind of the art of style & that arch wry adultness, that they recognize they are performers & arent on some misguided search for real meaning 'behind' it, that the style is substance

i dunno im just kinda spitballin

like deej implied, these guys have always sounded like moderately intelligent, engaged twentysomethings -- the sort that take their record collections and clothes very seriously. These are good things.

(maxwell may have been a bad example)

Yeah, I like that, Deej (coupla xposts now! well like four) Self-possession can be a good attribute to have when releasing music that aligns with hundreds of other records in a year; you can't be accused of being 'all the same' if you're yourself, if you keep a conscious distance. I think I do like some music that behaves in this manner, as well as some that attempts more consciously to push both self and boundaries into new places.

like deej implied, these guys have always sounded like moderately intelligent, engaged twentysomethings -- the sort that take their record collections and clothes very seriously. These are good things.

― Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 18, 2010 12:28 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

well, not really, no.

You're right. Unemployment and Mao posters are.

no, not them either alfred. idk, not being mediocre preppy types would set them right up in my view. caring about clothes and being moderately intelligent -- wonderful attributes in a flatmate.

oh my fucking god why is every poster with usually-decent taste in this thread repping for this TERRIBLE band? you have lost your goddamn minds

maybe this is obvious shit to ppl who listen to this stuff all the time but i like that these dudes have for a lack of a better word swag

― not a playa but i ilx a lot (deej), Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:11 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

otm its is the saving grace of this band - its also part of what pisses people off abt them so hard

hi, lex!

these feebs don't fucking have any swag

just when i thought we'd put animal collective down, along come this year's bête noire. fucking hate this band's music so much. it's not even the preppy thing, though the cardigans are an abomination

"this year"

privileged swag having feebs, destined hatred

A vegetarian since the invasion
She’d never seen the word BOMBS
She’d never seen the word BOMBS blown up
To 96 point Futura
She’d never seen an AK
In a yellowy Day Glo display
A t-shirt so lovely it turned all the history books grey

This bit totally ruined 'Holiday' for me.

why? M.I.A. coulda written it!

^^^ I immediately thought this too.

there is basically no way that anyone w/decent aesthetic standards should be able to get past THOSE LYRICS and THAT VOICE

h8 when people talk abt fontz

I knew this would turn clusterfucky.

random ppl: "hey maybe music writers have a few biases"
defensive bros: "no we dont, why am i not allowed to not listen to what i dont want to listen to, get out of my head"
thelex: "u are the devil"

the other thing abt this band is how their two most quoted couplets have to do w/obscure drinks and garments and its supposed to represent their whole much discussed class signifiers thing - but isnt that just knowing what things are called

yeah the thing with them is that there's nothing to them EXCEPT knowing what things are called, which as you say isn't even a big deal, so...there's nothing to care about. at least corral your class signifiers into some sort of narrative or emotional situation that actually makes me give a shit, you know? also, slit your throat so you can never sing again, singer dude

there is basically no way that anyone w/decent aesthetic standards should be able to get past THOSE LYRICS and THAT VOICE

der kommissar's in town UH UH.

I kinda dig those lyrics btw -- tho some of that definitely has to do with the delivery.

I've consistently taken some of lex's wilder rantings with a grain of salt, but I think I can now safely cross him off the list of critics worth spending time on.