the week the music (biz ) died

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Er, sorry about the spelling in that last post!

― Jamie T Smith, Monday, 26 March 2007 16:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Sometimes that Leftsetz guy is fun to read just because what he says is unintentionally funny (some of his baby boomer nostalgia) , and other times it's fun to see the responses he get to his ocasional diatribes(Both the Clap Your Hands Say manager and the Arcade Fire's manager have e-mailed him )....

― curmudgeon, Monday, 26 March 2007 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

emailed him to complain?? you'd think he'd all down with clap your hands and the arcade fire

― gff, Monday, 26 March 2007 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Yea, his criticisms of the way they market themselves were not consistent with the point of view he espoused in that excerpt above. Weird.

― curmudgeon, Monday, 26 March 2007 16:38 (seventeen years ago) link

It seems like everything that blames the recording industry for putting out bad music, not listening to consumers, not "developing artists," and all that means little next to the fact that you can get almost all music now for free. Has there every been an example of a product that could be had for free but people decided to pay anyway because they liked the way the industry ran their business? Maybe there has been, I don't know. But downloading a torrent is roughly the same number of clicks as downloading an album from iTunes or ordering it from Amazon, so it seems like a no-brainer which choice consumers will make.

― Mark Rich@rdson, Monday, 26 March 2007 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

To answer my own question -- yes, there is an example where people pay voluntarily and it's called shareware. And I could definitely see the music industry going to a new two-tiered system whereby big artists team with corporations to sponsor their albums and insert advertising into their songs (Levis sponsors a pop album, etc.) while indie artists go to a shareware system of donations. I bet some of them would do OK, especially if they had a close interaction and trust w/ their fanbase.

― Mark Rich@rdson, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:15 (seventeen years ago) link

"Has there every been an example of a product that could be had for free but people decided to pay anyway because they liked the way the industry ran their business?"

I don't think people buy off iTunes because they like the way the industry runs their business. They do it, I would guess, because (a) it's the legal way to get music or (b) because they want to help the artist make a living, or (c) because they don't know how to find and download torrents.

But as to your question of an example: people leave tips at restaurants even though they don't have to, to be served. People order food in restaurants and only pay after they've eaten it.

― Euler, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Thing is, the indies seem to do okay by building up just the kind of artist identification/loyalty you're talking about. They don't make great heaps of money, but fans tend to be dedicated and willing to spend substantial sums on music (albums, shows, merch) and keep up that spending over years and even decades. So they don't currently need to "go to a shareware system". Any more than they already have, I mean...

It seems to be the majors who are having a hard time making the old model work in the manner to which they've grown accustomed.

― Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:20 (seventeen years ago) link

The weird thing about the Leftsetz bit is that Jay-Z is actually a good example of someone who did the "slow build" kind of career he's talking about and built a lasting brand, fan loyalty, etc. that will continue to make him and his eventual estate money for a very long time.

Meanwhile, I actually see the danger of the opposite trend in the indie world - a fast-moving, loyalty-free world where the availability of such a wide variety of music and the sheer number of new albums coming out every year leads people to be mercurial and dismissive and rarely stay with artists for the long haul.

― Hurting 2, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Could be. Dunno. At present, indie kids still seem pretty serious about their favorite artists and about spending money on music in general. Then again, I don't really have my ear to the ground WRT trends in the business...

― Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Meanwhile, I actually see the danger of the opposite trend in the indie world - a fast-moving, loyalty-free world where the availability of such a wide variety of music and the sheer number of new albums coming out every year leads people to be mercurial and dismissive and rarely stay with artists for the long haul.

Hurting OTM

― Alex in Baltimore, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:32 (seventeen years ago) link

But downloading a torrent is roughly the same number of clicks as downloading an album from iTunes or ordering it from Amazon, so it seems like a no-brainer which choice consumers will make.

i wonder how many people out there are like me. it was worth it to join emusic for a number of reasons (nb not street teaming for emusic here but fuck it i think it's great). the first was just the overall lower hassle of getting shit from one place, with uniform and high quality, FAST, (usually) correct tags -- as opposed to illegal d/ling which is a crapshoot as far as availability, reliability, and speed. plus i was excited by being able to SHOP again, i really missed that experience. browsing thru every month is a lot of fun. somewhere in there was a niggling moral concern with wanting to see someone get paid for what they did, too.

so it's not a 'no-brainer' really! i added it up and decided paying a little was a good thing. i still rip shit off all the time, still, so, it's not either-or anyway.

― gff, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:32 (seventeen years ago) link

the point being that if a legal service can offer something that beats the negatives of the illegal experience and price it right, there you go, success.

― gff, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:36 (seventeen years ago) link

This doesn't get mentioned too often, but how do you think the separation between the computer and the stereo plays into this. Of course, tons of people are fusing the two, or only use computers. But there's still enough of a divide for folks to have only music they listen to on their computers and music they listen to on their stereos. By they way, what are the recent trends in the sale of stereo components?

― QuantumNoise, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Has there every been an example of a product that could be had for free but people decided to pay anyway because they liked the way the industry ran their business?

drinking water (i'm not sure that people liking the way the industry runs its business is the reason for this. rather, people just like the product, whether its taste, or marketing, or packaging, or whatever, and they see the price as reasonable)

― fact checking cuz, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

sorry, that middle sentence doesn't read well.

― QuantumNoise, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

"Has there every been an example of a product that could be had for free but people decided to pay anyway because they liked the way the industry ran their business?"
http://www.sooaf.com/quebec/bouteilles/aquafina.JPG

― forksclovetofu, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

whoops, just beat to it by fact checkin' cuz.

― forksclovetofu, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Quantum's question totally OTM. Gear purchasing = canary in the coal mine.

― Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

This doesn't get mentioned too often, but how do you think the separation between the computer and the stereo plays into this.

This is still a slight issue for me, as I haven't invested in really good computer-to-stereo equipment (I have a crappy headphone jack adaptor), and I'm still nervous about the permanence of my computer-based music (external hard drive could fail, etc.)

If it wasn't for emusic, I'd probably just keep buying physical recordings, but the economics and convenience of emusic have made it irresistable.

― Hurting 2, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I totally agree. I only own a laptop, and I use one of those headphone-RC cable jacks into the aux.

― QuantumNoise, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Thought of that, but that's not why people byt bottled water.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:58 (seventeen years ago) link

buy. sorry, busy.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Srsly if I were in the hardware business, I'd create a specially-designed and marketed hard drive just for music, or maybe for music and video - one that's designed to last a long time and rarely fails and also maybe looks cool and has some built-in features beyond just being storage. Sort of a bigger, more permanent iPod.

― Hurting 2, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:59 (seventeen years ago) link

A jukebox lockbox, if you will.

― Hurting 2, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:02 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't feel like I'm getting "user value" or whatever if I don't have a CD with a sleeve. Call me old fashioned. Also, I have a fucking great big hi-fi on a rack and stands with expensive cables and it sounds better than any computer I ever heard.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:41 (seventeen years ago) link

While there's a few good points here, the whole basis for this discussion is completely pointless.

Overall Music Sales: 2004 - 817,000,000, 2005 - 1,003,000,000, 2006 - 1,198,000,000

That's a 19.4 % increase from 2005, and 46.6% from 2004. And that's just according to Nielson Soundscan, which I don't think does a great job in covering all the boutique stores and sites.

So how about we tell the RIAA and all the other chickn' littles to shut the fuck up and get on with it?

First step is to provide deep catalog titles in high bandwidth formats. Music Giants is getting the idea. However, the prices are just stupid. While it's taking the right step in offering uncompressed downloads, I'm still not getting printed album art and a disc, which still happens to be very reliable, convenient backup storage. There are also no manufacturing and distribution costs. So rather than $14 to $20, shouldn't they be priced at around $5? Wake me up when they are.

― Fastnbulbous, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:47 (seventeen years ago) link

if you read what you'd just linked to, you'd see nothing that really contradicts this thread's point (which specifically covers first quarter 2007 sales). that statistic converges album and single sales -- album sales are down, so net gross is plummeting. though it's definitely a good point that overall sales are up.

OVERALL MUSIC SALES (01/02/06 - 12/31/06)
(ALBUMS, SINGLES, MUSIC VIDEO, DIGITAL TRACKS - IN MILLIONS)
UNITS SOLD 2006 2005 % Chg.
1,198 1,003 19.4%

TOTAL ALBUM SALES (01/02/06 - 12/31/06)
(INCLUDES CD, CS, LP, DIGITAL ALBUMS - IN MILLIONS)
UNITS SOLD 2006 2005 % Chg.
588.2 618.9 -4.9%

― Milton Parker, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Thought of that, but that's not why people byt bottled water.

i don't think it matters why people buy bottled water. i think it only matters that they do, even though they don't have to.

― fact checking cuz, Monday, 26 March 2007 22:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Total units moved does not give you a financial picture. Even a 20% increase comprised mainly of digital single songs does not offset a mere 5% drop in album sales. And that's just one year.

― Hurting 2, Monday, 26 March 2007 22:45 (seventeen years ago) link

People buy bottled water for:
1) oft-imaginary safety reasons
2) ease of portability
3) impulse needs
4) ease of access

Sound familar?

― forksclovetofu, Monday, 26 March 2007 22:57 (seventeen years ago) link

and 5) good packaging and marketing.

which is exactly what a certain four multinational distribution companies have always said they're especially good at.

― fact checking cuz, Monday, 26 March 2007 23:33 (seventeen years ago) link

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