Batman carries on beginning in ... The Dark Knight

Like the Michael Reagan of Gotham City.

WB isn't Fox though - they seem pretty content to leave Nolan and and his concepts be. (see also: the $200-million Inception)

Seems more-and-more likely to me that this franchise has hit the end of the road (in terms of ideas to explore and fresh, new reasons to continue). Joker v. Batman is always the highpoint of the series, to me, and downhill after that.

I don't know that telling a good Batman vs Joker stories automatically means there are no more worthwhile Batman stories to tell.

GIVE UP DAN ITS OVER.

Haha. Yes. I HAVE DECREED IT.

Trust me, I have no such delusions about my own significance or authority.

Really would like to see Miley Cyrus do a post-Ledger Harley Quinn.

Me too, if her character is violently beaten while she's singing.

just a friendly film-related reminder:

~~~~The Top 75 films/movies of the 2000s/oughties VOTING THREAD~~~~

The only thing overrated in that film is Ledger!!

― Radio Birdman Rally (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 12 January 2010 13:01 (7 hours ago) Permalink

oh come on.

Yeah, there's many other overrated things in it besides him.

I hear it's too serious

why

Was that at my post? I wasn't serious

#bieber4robin

I finally saw this and really don't understand the plaudits for Ledger as the Joker. He obviously studied up on nature documentaries about the habits of lizards, OK, that's good - a lot of actors use animals as a starting point. But Jesus McGillicutty, it's like there's some unwritten iron law that villains must be a schizophrenic mixture of excitably comic and snarlingly vicious. cf Moriarty in the latest Sherlock series on the BBC. Ooh he's unpredictable! One minute he's laughing, the next minute he's shouting! Whatever will we do! Please, please please actors and directors of the world, can we please have a villain who is simply a genius at crime with an actual personality instead of a collection of psychopathic tics? THANK YOU IN ADVANCE I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU.

http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/palpatine.jpg

to be fair tracer...he does call himself the joker and look like a clown, i think it's reasonable to assume he's not a dignified genius crime boss/moneyman, if he was it'd be Heat, not Batman.

No that's fine, I just thought it was twitchy madman by the numbers. FIND DIFFERENT MANNERISMS PLEASE.

Yeah, I was gonna say, you know, fair points but, uh, HE'S THE FUCKING JOKER.

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/a/aparo_jim/aparo_jim.jpg

If that were Ledger's Joker whacking Robin with a crowbar he'd have to work in about thirty micro-scowls and five twitchy lip-licks in between each blow and after he was finished go "hmmmmmm!" like a school marm. Which is crazy, because school marms don't kill people! IT IS CRAZY!

http://teachmix.com/dayblend/sites/default/files/gollum.jpg

so you are criticizing Ledger for playing the Joker like the Joker...?

Yeah, the fact that his completely unpredictable has been a defining trait for The Joker since day one, can't really blame Ledger for running with that. The movie makers must like the weirdo Batman villains, most Batman movies have featured them instead of the more rational crime geniuses. The weirdos just tend to be more memorable, I guess - how many people remember Batman Begins for Liam Neeson's or Tom Wikinson's performances?

The bigger problem is that DK doesn't find a good angle to the Batman/Joker conflict. Traditionally, Batman has been depicted as a highly intelligent, rational superdetective who can predict any outcome - and that's why The Joker is such a good nemesis for him, as he's totally unpredictable. Another way of contrasting Batman and Joker is the idea (first presented in The Killing Joke) that they're not so different, that they're both mad in their own way, that they both had "one bad day" which changed them into what they are. But DK doesn't really try either of this approaches, The Joker isn't really contrasted with Batman, he pretty much stands alone and Batman is left in his shadow.

I mean you are basically talking about the character that is the modern archetype for "twitchy unpredictable madman"; this has been the most prominent example of it for the past 70 years, particularly in comics and cartoon series over the past... 25? You might as well complain that Batman broods too much or Superman is too moral and good-looking, or that the Riddler would be more successful if he didn't keep dropping hints about his crimes or the Penguin's avian theme doesn't make sense, etc etc.

if anything i thought the ledger joker was one of the first to really get the schizo light-switch flip between tra-la-la wacky and totally-fucking-scary and back again *right*. (though much love to mark hamill as always.)

The weirdos just tend to be more memorable, I guess - how many people remember Batman Begins for Liam Neeson's or Tom Wikinson's performances?

not sure neeson's al-ghul doesn't count as 'weirdo', but leaving that aside it was a shit performance in a shittily written role. he looked embarrassed at most of his lines. at least the joker is cool

the schizo light-switch flip between tra-la-la wacky and totally-fucking-scary and back again

Yeah it's this - I'm just fucking over it. I never really read comic books when I was little, but my impression of the Joker was that he was just a mean motherfucker who liked to make fun of people and create spectacular, nonsensical crimes, rather than being some sort of ADD neurotic.

I wouldn't have a problem if it were interesting, which is why my problem is with Ledger, not the Joker. He is just incredibly mannered and actorly, like Sean Penn in "Sweet and Lowdown". For the most part, trying to play a person who is that visibly crazy is just doomed to fail: as an actor, you are NOT actually crazy to that physical degree, so you are faking it. Which the audience comprehends on some level. In my opinion craziness needs to come out of the script, not in the outward mannerisms of the actor. I would have loved to see Ledger play the Joker "straight". I bet a lot of his lines would have sounded even crazier that way.

I never really read comic books when I was little, but my impression of the Joker was that he was just a mean motherfucker who liked to make fun of people and create spectacular, nonsensical crimes, rather than being some sort of ADD neurotic.

well, you were wrong

also, Joker played straight = Two-Face

kind of agree with tracer. always want the joker to be a supersmooth ganster sweet talking type, let the crazy manifest itself in the 'trying to kill everyone' macrodetail.

still enjoyed ledger's performance. best thing in this movie, that's for sure.

After playing Arkham Asylum, I REALLY hope the figure out a way to use Victor Zsasz

use him more, I mean

Batman: [narrating] Now the guy's got the Joker as a partner. Any problems, he goes to the Joker. Trouble with the bill? He can go to the Joker. Trouble with Gordon, deliveries, the Riddler, he can call the Joker. But now the guy's gotta come up with the Joker's money every week, no matter what. Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning, huh? Fuck you, pay me.

THA JOKEFATHER

JOKEFELLAS

JOKINO

okay are we done now

JOKESI DRIVER

i.e. no we clearly are not

JOKESY MALONE

BLOWKER

gagfather

THE UNJOKEABLES

suggest bans all around then.

angels with dirty jokes

Also the Joker wasn't skinny enough. He needs to be wearing drainpipe trousers and an impossibly tight jacket. Wiry people are inherently untrustworthy. Beefy dudes are honest. When Ledger leaned out of the window of the cop car and shook his hair and salivated on his prosthetic muzzle a little I was struck by his brawny biceps. No way the Joker works out. No fucking way.

You don't want Dark Knight, you want Jim Aparo presents Batman

he wants joseph gordon levitt (not a bad shout in 20 years time maybe)

ha actually I would not be mad at all if they tapped him to do it if they wanted to keep the character, he was the most credible thing about "GI Joe"

yes, I saw "GI Joe", in the THEATER