Doctor Feelgood: heroes of pre-punk, or the Canvey Quo?

Watch the trailer. Having spent a lot of time in coastal NJ, there's no real comparison between it
and the Feelgood neck of the woods. Not much, if any, romanticism or myth-making in the early Feelgoods stuff. The Feelgoods defined taut.

Wilko was a huge influence on a lot of post-punk guitarists. Erase the vocal tracks from just about any Gang of Four song and it sound uncannily like the Feelgoods.

Also, didn't Lee Brilleuex lend Dave Robinson and Jake Rivera several hundred pounds to start Stiff Records?

Springsteen/ Rats

Only came out when they started making records: before that, definite Feelgoods/ Hotrods copyists.

Feelgoods/Hot Rods/Count Bishops/Gorillas/Graham Parker/101'ers/Tyla Gang/Lew Lewis/Little Bob Story

Still have records by nearly all of those. There was movie about Jesse Hector (Gorillas) wasn't there?

"Television/Patti Smith/Richard Hell/Jonathan Richman etc."

i'd take the count bishops over ANY of these people. but i'm in the minority. hell, i'd take ducks deluxe over any of them too.

Re this thread, you're not in a minority. Stupidity attained a chart high water mark not equalled by any other pub rock band in the UK. I think.

Unsurprisingly, the album was not released in the US. They were written off even faster than Slade and Status Quo in terms of being too English.

Andy Gill is interviewed in the doco, and gives full regard to Wilko as an inspiration.

Here's the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CZMLs8Ke40

That does look good. Quite the pub rock revival kicking off at the moment what with this and the Ian Dury film.

I'm gonna have to come out of semi-lurking for this thread! Totally great band and Wilko is absolute favourite guitarist, along with Verlaine/Lloyd. Dunno about them not being great in the studio - Jetty and Malpractice rock pretty hard IMHO - certainly they pack more of a punch than similar just-pre-punk stuff from the likes of The Count Bishops/Hot Rods etc. Part of the problem might be the FLOW of the studio albums, the Wilko-sung tracks break it up a bit, and there's always one where the mix is just plain wrong - e.g Vic Maile mixing the guitar too low in Going Back Home on Malpractice.

I think Mick Green is the biggest influence on Wilko along with Steve Cropper - have a listen to the Pirates or The Dakotas for that 'rhythm and lead together' style. Not easy to play - getting something like 'I Don't Mind' to flow is pretty difficult without using Wilko's fingers and thumbs method.

Like Mike T-Diva the more hard-edged pub-rock bands got me through in 1975 (as a 13 year old!) and I remember seeing this clip on the telly and being totally blown away. In Yorkshire, we used to get the Geordie Scene on a Saturday morning - compulsory viewing in my house. It was usually a mixture of glam, hard rock and the odd bit of proggy stuff, but done live in front of a TOTP-type audience. I can remember SAHB, Procol Harem, The Sweet, Mott on there. Oh and Nazareth were on every bloody week just about...

here's the clip...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eVyofFm0Rw

Fuck - I just saw elsewhere that Mick Green died YESTERDAY :( RIP.

Saw that, was gonna say.

I guess that Vic Maile is a central figure here if we're plotting a course from the Pirates and the Animals through Dr Feelgood to the Screaming Blue Messiahs and the Godfathers.

The Godfathers - now there's a band who never captured their live energy on recd!

The Godfathers - now there's a band who never captured their live energy on recd!

except the live album of course. but yes, i totally agree.

Great clip there.
One way in which the Feelgoods, maybe more than others, preseaged punk was that they had a thought out look. It may seem unstudied now, but most of their contemporaries were still stranded in a no mans land of post hippie threads and beards, and pub rock authenticity. The Feelgoods, with the suits and short hair and Wilko and Sparks little walk forward, walk back, move, were, in that context, riveting. (obviously there were bands at the opposite extreme as well - SAHBs, Roxy etc - but glam and pub-rock were pretty discrete cultures, they those bands didn't impinge much on the audience the Feelgoods were getting)

Godfathers a good comparison - though the Coyne brothers did get the live sound down on record once at least:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLOp8cE5zEw

fu*ck. thats a good track, ta for that ithappens.
i was a big godfathers fan, but to this day i dont have any SPE material.
clearly i have been missing out.

that 'geordie scene' clip is fantastic. i think "stupidity' surprised both the band and their label by going to no. 1 in the album charts and very briefly the feelgoods were the biggest band in the uk. my entry point was through hearing "milk and alcohol" (their only top ten single) on the radio relentlessly throughout the summer of '79 though it is to my eternal regret that i never saw them live. i cannot wait to see the film.

due to this thread, i have just dug down by the jetty (2 cd collectors edition) out of its unloved place in the archive and given it a blast.
wow.
after a few days of not getting any real buzz from music, this was a very much needed boost.

I voted for down by the jetty in the 70s poll.

http://www.godfathershq.com/images/svdm2010.jpg

another year, another chance to see them again dissipates (boring grown up shit).
the various times i saw them in 86-94 they never once disappointed, and in fact on a couple of occasions, scared the living shit out of me (was violence and audience antagonism part of all their shows ?)

i never saw them live but this is still one of my fave albums from the 80's:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t6Gs_TbZqnY/RenQjmFWo0I/AAAAAAAAAGM/jtwFudsOVhU/s320/hit+by+hit+cover.jpg

All their chorusses were the title repeated 4 times.

Except for "Birth School Work Death" which was only twice.

scott, that was actually reissued by the band recently with an extra disc of session versions which are excellent, and live tracks, including a live rendition of that sid Presley experience track above that i didn't realise until 47 minutes ago.

and yes, mark g, i know of their limitations lyrically, but there was something about the venomous vocal attack and riffs that just hit this young impressionable 18 year old in 1986 hard.

I never saw them live, but they were on one of those late night live TV gig shows, and I had to really prove it to myself I wasn't actually there.

Or was I?

That's the Godfathers I mean.

I did see Dr Feelgood, way after the 'glory' days, Lee Brilleaux plus various lads half his age. Bit disappointing. Was with a mate who used to 'roadie' for them occasionally, which may have clouded things.

Saw the Godfathers a couple of times, and they were fun, but I never really got the point of them on record. At that time I was listening to a lot of 60s punk, so they seemd kind of superfluous. Saw SPE once, at Brixton Ritzy supporting Billy Bragg at a GLC Jobs for Change gig. I was 15 and they were great - the Godfathers were a definite disappointment after that. However, it's not like there's much to weigh them on - just two singles, I think, and a Peel session or two. The difference, in my memory, relates to what's exciting about Dr Feelgood in the live clips: the Godfathers looked like a rock band because of that guitarist with the shagpile hair, while SPE looked like a gang. Gangs look more exciting on a stage.

the Godfathers looked like a rock band because of that guitarist with the shagpile hair,

good point, and very true. he certainly did not look part of the gang.
still, each time i saw them the experience was very intense.

Now I want to go dig out my Godfathers cd

Couldn't resist knocking this up on Spotify:
Going Back Home: a UK pub rock sampler.

36 tracks, broadly chronological, mostly from 1975-77, with a little bit before and a little bit after. Strictly one track per artist - except for Dr. Feelgood, to whom the playlist is dedicated!

Track listing:
1. She Does It Right - Dr Feelgood
2. I Fought The Law - Ducks Deluxe (mis-labelled on Spotify, tsk)
3. Louisa On A Horse - John Otway & Wild Willy Barrett
4. How Long - Ace
5. Why Did You Do It - Stretch
6. Motor Bikin' - Chris Spedding
7. Home In My Hand (live at the Hope & Anchor) - Brinsley Schwarz
8. Going Back Home - Dr Feelgood
9. Teenage Letter - Count Bishops
10. Keys To Your Heart - The 101ers
11. She's My Gal - The Gorillas
12. So It Goes - Nick Lowe
13. Get Out Of Denver (live at the Marquee) - Eddie & the Hot Rods
14. Roxette (live) - Dr Feelgood
15. Between The Lines - Pink Fairies
16. Cincinatti Fatback - Roogalator
17. Hotel Chambermaid - Graham Parker & the Rumour
18. Styrofoam - Tyla Gang
19. Boogie On The Street - Lew Lewis
20. Hightime (live) - Little Bob Story
21. Showbiz - Downliners Sect
22. Police Car - Larry Wallis
23. Sneakin' Suspicion - Dr Feelgood
24. Mystery Dance - Elvis Costello
25. Razzle In My Pocket - Ian Dury (alas, no Kilburns on Spotify)
26. Whole Wide World - Wreckless Eric
27. Cat On A Wall - Squeeze
28. I Knew The Bride - Dave Edmunds
29. Mony Mony - Celia & the Mutations (aka Stranglers)
30. She's A Wind Up - Dr Feelgood
31. Dancing The Night Away - The Motors
32. Be Good To Yourself - Frankie Miller
33. The Walk - The Inmates
34. Driver's Seat - Sniff & the Tears
35. Sultans Of Swing - Dire Straits
36. Back In The Night - Dr Feelgood

i used to have this on tape:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b8/Hope_%26_Anchor.jpg/584px-Hope_%26_Anchor.jpg

A1 Wilko Johnson Band - Dr. Feelgood
A2 The Stranglers - Straighten Out
A3 Tyla Gang - Styrofoam
A4 The Pirates - Don't Munchen It
A5 The Steve Gibbons Band - Speed Kills
A6 XTC - I'm Bugged
A7 Suburban Studs - I Hate School
B1 The Pleasers - Billy
B2 XTC - Science Friction
B3 Dire Straits - Eastbound Train
B4 Burlesque - Bizz Fizz
B5 X-Ray Spex - Let's Submerge
B6 999 - Crazy
C1 The Saints - Demolition Girl
C2 999 - Quite Disappointing
C3 The Only Ones - Creatures Of Doom
C4 The Pirates - Gibson Martin Fender
C5 Steel Pulse - Sound Check
C6 Roogalator - Zero Hero
D1 Philip Rambow - Underground Romance
D2 The Pleasers - Rock & Roll Radio
D3 Tyla Gang - On The Street
D4 The Steve Gibbons Band - Johnny Cool
D5 Wilko Johnson Band - Twenty Yards Behind
D6 The Stranglers - Hanging Around

when i was a kid. i appreciate the mix of styles much more now than i did then!

Probably irrelevant, but I must protest the maligning of Status Quo in the thread title.

Fair point. Incidentally, if you're in a pub rock mood, the Ian Dury movie currently doing the rounds is good value.

Roogalator.... another great live band, lost in year zero puritanism.

I remember that Godfathers late night live show, I taped it and watched it a lot, iirc it ended with a cover of Anarchy. Gloriously couldn't-give-a-fuck uncool. One thing that also sticks in my mind is a Sounds piece on them that described one of the band (Kris maybe) of dressing like a 'blind mod with cruel mates'

is there anybody else who finds the term pub rock totally inappropriate for what dr. feelgood weres doing? they made rhythm and blues, pub rock is an insult.

maybe paul weller made pub rock.

Nothing wrong with pubs.

i never said the contrary.

Pub- rock in that context meant rock music played in pubs- venues like the Hope and Anchor, the Nashville, the Half Moon and so on, as opposed to concert venues and universites which were the staple of Brit rock in the 70s. And pubs in Britain are -or were then - very different from clubs.

Imagine a time when pubs actually had live bands!

Ha, my dad actually went to see Dr Feelgood a couple of months ago, playing in the backroom at one of his locals! Fuck knows who is in the band now though.

Ddin't they pop up on the thread about bands with no original members?

Sounds about right!

As Brilleaux had insisted prior to his demise, Dr. Feelgood reunited initially with vocalist Pete Gage, and then Robert Kane, and recommenced touring in 1996. Every year since Brilleaux's death, a special concert, known as the Lee Brilleaux Birthday Memorial, is held on Canvey Island, where ex and current Feelgoods celebrate the music of Dr. Feelgood, and raise money for the Fairhaven hospice. Fans attend from all over the globe, and the sixteenth event was held on 8 May 2009.

they made rhythm and blues, pub rock is an insult.

It's all dialectical, innit? "Pub rock" was handy code for a smaller scale, back-to-basics, more egalitarian performance-based style, which stood in opposition to the increasingly large-scale, distanced, studio-based superstar pomp of the day - and as such, the term was readily embraced by its proponents. The network of London venues which evolved around it, or whose lifespan was sustained by it - Hope & Anchor, Nashville, Dingwalls, Marquee, 100 Club etc - then provided a ready-made test bed/launching pad for the early punk scene, and much as the punk bands might have openly scorned their surroundings, they would have struggled much harder to build a scene without them. But then the dialectic shifted, turning "pub rock" from a term of affection and modest pride into a term of abuse: by 1979 or so, it had begun to be used as code for lack of artistic ambition / insular complacency / conservative, reverential jam-band plodding etc...

i can't stop listening to "She Does it Right"

This was my Rough Guide to Pub-Rock on one of those Rough Guides threads:

Win Or Lose - Lew Lewis Reformer
Water - Roogalator
Another Useless Day - Black Claw
Back In The Night - Dr. Feelgood
What Have We Got To Lose - Bees Make Honey
Fireball - Tyla Gang
Coast To Coast - Ducks De Luxe
You Really Got Me - Hammersmith Gorillas
So It Goes - Nick Lowe
Between The Lines - The Pink Fairies
Girls Are Always Right - Any Trouble
Train Train - Count Bishops
Alright With Me - Jook
Romeo and The Lonely Girl - Ernie Graham
Reconnez Cherie - Wreckless Eric
Day Job - Meal Ticket

For me there were two strands to pub-rock.

1) The west-coast/country rock type of thing (Eggs Over Easy, Bees Make Honey, Brinsley etc). This was around from about 70-71.

2) Harder edged R&B based stuff that came through in 73-74 (Count Bishops, Hot Rods, Dr.Feelgood, Gorillas also maybe some of the street-rock bands like Pink Fairies could be lumped in here)

1975 was the pivotal year when the country rock thing started to sound old things really hardened up. Nick Lowe migrated from category 1 to 2, as did Brinsley and Bob Andrews with The Rumour. Early Graham Parker is still pretty Van Morrison/Springsteen-ish though - I was listening to a singles comp last night - I reckon the Jack Nitzsche productions are his best work. Discovering Japan and Local Girls are fantastic. Oh...and Protection's a great single too.

That's a good Spotify list. Downliner's Sect are an interesting bunch - first album was in 1964 then reappeared and fell in with the pub-rock circuit in the mid 70's. They're still going and quite often play in a pub/club near me (The Eel Pie Club).

Thanks, Dr.C. Good to see you're still around. Wish I could have put something from the first Ducks Deluxe album on the Spotify list; I'd probably have gone for Coast To Coast. That "I Fought The Law" cover doesn't represent them at their best, but it does show where Joe Strummer probably got his inspiration from for the Cost Of Living EP. That 1977 Downliners Sect single came out on the Raw label, which was run from my local record shop in Cambridge. It sat oddly amongst the rest of the label's punk-based roster. Count Bishops "Teenage Letter" still sounds completely fantastic; had forgotten just how good it was.

Yes, I'd forgotten that Raw single. There was a Gorillas single on Raw too IIRC.

they are playing berlin tonight. not sure if i should go.

Aww, Wilko finally passed. RIP.

aw no! i had been wondering about him a lot recently. what a hero.

One of the nicest and funniest people I ever interviewed, and his autobiography was an utter delight. RIP Wilko.

Oh no! RIP Wilko :((((((((

lovely interview Mike. i also recall reading your Guardian piece at the time. excellent work.

a sad day.

Absolutely brilliant guitarist who forged such an immediately identifiable, personal style and stage presence. RIP.

RIP to a legend

All the Youtube videos in this thread seem to have disappeared, I should do somehting about that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzF0AETdRF8

john b "sparko" sparks's tache is a thing of beauty, and brilleaux's pale begrime suit even more so

"they looked as if they’d met each other in some unsavoury part of the army," as mick farren put it long ago

Three of them were called John so I assume the nicknames came in handy - and then Wilko was replaced by another John so they had to come up with another nickname!

Three of them were called John

not the only band to have had that issue tbh!

Some other observations:

1. I saw one of those expert Youtube guitarists trying to reproduce Wilko's guitar part on "Goin' Back Home", playing exactly like Wilko, and it is ridiculously difficult, especially if you're constantly striding backwards and forwards with your eyes popping out your head (he didn't do that part).

2. Not an instrument I'm especially interested in but Lee Brilleaux was a very good blues harp player (harpist?).

3. Had no idea The Big Figure did most of the backing vocals.

this guy does a good guitar tutorial...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LifmFE63kHQ

... that's the one! He had to admit "Goin' Back Home" was somewhat outside his comfort zone.

yeah comfort is not a word that springs to mind while watching any of that!

Doctor Feelgood: heroes of pre-punk, or the Canvey Quo?

but Quo are heroes of pre-punk (in mah book)

Heroes of pre-punk, AND the Canvey Quo

(xp) Except not many actual punks in 1976-77 would have given Quo as an influence, which I thought was the point of the title. Dr. Feelgood seem a lot more 60s R&B than Quo, there are similarities but Dr. Feelgood rarely strayed about 4 minutes and guitar solos were kept short and sweet.

That's why mah book is different than the punks of 1976-77. They would have missed Is There a Better Way, and before that Just Take Me, and ignored Down Down's economical motorik totality.

Down Down is just unstoppable. I was extremely annoyed though when I bought the 7" single in Belgium a few years ago only to find out that it's the fuckin album version that I like.

Yeah I can't listen to the 7". As well as removing some of the middle it fades out right before one a whole succession of inventive parts, just when you think the music has disclosed everything. When the music unexpectedly goes 'up' and the bass drops out only to re-emerge as strange little wriggles, accompanied by arbitrary offbeat hats, before everyone locks furiously into step for the real, very splashy fadeout.

I LOVE that song.

I danced to Rockin All Over The World tonight, I have no shame.

looking a little into the life and times of MICK GREEN of the johnny kidd and the pirates, who wilko cites as precursor whose plectrum he is not fit to lick ect ect, i
(a) was reminded of the live at the hope and anchor LP, which attempted (tho i think failed) to establish 60s UK r&b, pub rock, power pop and punk as a unified broad new wave front (it sold fairly well but was beloved of no one much critically), and
(b) discovered that said mick green co-wrote some quo songs w/alan lancaster (quo bassist and co-founder), and
(c) noted w/pleasure that the post-kidd pirates put out an LP in 1978 called SKULL WARS and a ten-inch in 1981 called A FISTFUL OF DUBLOONS

as you can see my hints, quo are krautrock (this is canon)

(s/b as you can see me from westbury white horse hints etc)

Quo are basically Guru Guru with better songs, but maybe a discussion for a different thread.

Adrian's attempts to play like Wilko prove that you can learn all the technique you want, but if you're not an angry dysfunctional weirdo it'll never sound right.

Re: Mick Green, the guitar playing on this is absolutely brutal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS8uC7ea9oE

ditto the singer's hairstyle tbf

the angriest garfunkel

nevertheless, hfs at that clip.

HFS x 2!