ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

I think the apostrophe in do's is a special case, for clarity/disambiguation -- there is no reason to do the same for don'ts, which perfectly clear in its natural no-apostrophe plural.

it would never, ever, ever be "do's and don't's". ever. in any possible universe.

What about that universe of yours where 2+2 != 4?

hah, i was discussing that with F on saturday, believe it or not.

but no, not even in that one.

Dunkin Don't's

DOS is definitely a don't these days. C:/suck

dos and windon'ts ... no, that doesn't work. forget i said it.

How about does and doesn'ts?

and dozy dotes and little lamsy divey

Do-si-dos.

eyes to the right noses to the left

what do you like better:

on-site
or
onsite

like, onsite repair vs on-site repair

both are "correct"

On-site.

Yeah, I would hyphenate that, too. It's not quite at the level of "online."

yeah that was my reasoning too - also it has more impact i find
cool
thanks guys

The official spelling is Daylight Saving Time, not Daylight SavingS Time.

Saving is used here as a verbal adjective (a participle). It modifies time and tells us more about its nature; namely, that it is characterized by the activity of saving daylight. It is a saving daylight kind of time. Because of this, it would be more accurate to refer to DST as daylight-saving time. Similar examples would be a mind-expanding book or a man-eating tiger. Saving is used in the same way as saving a ball game, rather than as a savings account.

http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/b.html

has the word "waiter" lost its gender? y'know, like "actor" supposedly has now come to encompass the male and the female.

i'm writing in the singular so can't use the term "waiting staff" and would rather not write "waiter/waitress".

chars

no it still has a gender

waitron

server

order-jockey

not Daylight SavingS Time

who in the NAME OF SORRY FUCK would say "daylight savings time"?

Oh fuck you, Grimly. Only everyone in the US, that's who.

It's still early enough here for ME to be cranky, what's YOUR excuse?

He's a knob.

I rationalise this phenomenon on the basis that I can imagine Ned Flanders saying: "Okie-diddley-okie, it's time for some of them daylight savings!"

Do the British even say Daylight Saving Time, with or without the 's'? It's British Summer Time isn't it?

Yeah, though it seems to be creeping in, especially when we talk about the practice in a non-parochial, abstract context.

Also, computer OSes have popularised the phrase.

It's a bit of a confusing name, to be honest. Because the clock-shifting thing is sold to us on the clocks-going-back, October end of things, it being deemed important for farmers and schoolchildren to have more daylight in the morning. But that's when we come off daylight saving time (aka BST). So the daylight we want to save comes in the GMT section of the year.

Laurel OTM. In New York we still "stand on line," too, and everyone else can fuck off.

If "actor" has become gender-neutral (except for awards season), why can't waiter?

xpost Farmers - ha, reminds me of this Straight Dope gem:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_052.html

If "actor" has become gender-neutral (except for awards season), why can't waiter?

It can, it just hasn't.

He's a knob

no, a twat. get it right!

Also, computer OSes have popularised the phrase

YES, WITHOUT THE EXTRA S!

It's still early enough here for ME to be cranky, what's YOUR excuse?

an entire nation's grammatical idiocy, if what you say is right ... and i really, really don't want to believe you are, but i fear the worst :(

a cursory google reveals the odd occurrence of this particular craziness, but ... really, WTF? there's no logic there at all.

wow.

(fucking hell: to think that for all this time i've argued that the UK should adopt american english, too. this could change everything in a heartbeat :)

In New York we still "stand on line," too

that could almost -- almost -- have a grain of logic behind it. just about. i mean, you could sorta imagine a line.

but daylight savings time? jesus wept, america.

xxp Sure there is. You have savingS banks, money put away every month is called your savingS, and Daylight SavingS Time is a standard that allows you to accrue a bit more savings every day.

YOU WHAT?

10/10 for trying, though :)

if what you say is right

Hi, have we met?

heheheheh :)

I like "savings" time. It's nice for words to be just an edge away from their literal workmanlike meanings.

Alba: I always thought it was because you got extra hours of sunlight in the summer evening, when it matters. fuk one farmer.

dude. don't you fucking start. mind: from a sub who admits he takes a descriptive approach to grammar, i guess i should expect no better. pah.

No, look: if you found something that cost $100 on sale for $75, that would be a 25% savingS. When you come home at 6pm and it's light until 10 instead of until 9, that's an hour's savingS of daylight (you wouldn't say "an hour's saving").

It's not a perfect logical line but it's not hard to understand/justify the usage, either.

The page that I pasted that from says it would be more accurate and less confusing to call it "Daylight-Shifting Time" since no daylight is, after all, saved. It is just shifted to a different time of day.

On the airplane last Sunday the pilot made some chortling reference to a new (possibly EU-derived) phrase which is supposed to supplant BST as the official terminology, but I can't remember what it was.

Aha!

Western European Summer Time
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

--> (Redirected from British Summer Time)

!!!

WEST

British pissing-down-again Sad-farmers high-time-to-emigrate Time?

Daylight shifting would be much better. "Daylight Saving" makes it sound like an amateurish sales trick.

y'know, like "actor" supposedly has now come to encompass the male and the female.

When The Guardian ran an obituary of Italian film producer (and one-time husband of Sophia Loren), an overzealous sub followed the style book to the letter, so that readers were treated to the information that in his early career he was "already a man with a good eye for pretty actors".

"This was one of those occasions when the word 'actresses' might have been used", pointed out the reader's editor in a subsequent clarification.

No, look: if you found something that cost $100 on sale for $75, that would be a 25% savingS

er, no? A saving of 25% = a 25% saving.

o. West Euro Savings Time, yey.

"British Summer Time was permanently in force during the Second World War from February 1940 until October 1945."

This seems a little weird.

xposts

if you found something that cost $100 on sale for $75, that would be a 25% savingS

no it wouldn't! it would be a 25% saving! singular!

we are not going to agree here. i mean, i'm right, but i'll magnanimously accept that i'm not going to convince you you're wrong ;)

Ledge, we would never say that, "a 25% saving". It's un-American. But thanks for the headS up.