DJ Shadow: classic or dud?

today there's more music being recorded than ever before in history. combine that with distribution costs going down to zero and we have a glut. if billions of oranges were suddenly available everywhere and anywhere and there were oranges on every corner of the street...the price would drop down to zero...and I wouldn't have pity for anyone who then decided to go plant an orange orchard w/ the intention of making money.

an orange is pretty much like other oranges. if/when newspapers all die out, we'll still have bloggers. just almost all of them will be shit, or otherwise won't have the resources to do the job.

but hey it's a "new business model" granddad.

does every investment of time and effort from every artist in the world deserve remuneration? does every garage band deserve to earn money? where does this 'deserve' come from?

― iatee, Saturday, January 9, 2010 5:43 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

um, well, yes, if people are listening to their music.

cf your other post:

if people like it, it's gonna reach a whole lot more people than it would have 20 years ago.

this "deserve" comes from a pretty well-established custom that you shouldn't get something for nothing.

I'll bet you can't. Pitchfork isn't just going to listen to everything that comes across their desk, and they're certainly not going to say "Wow, here's some dude in his bedroom with no label and no distribution. Let's put it on "best new music" even though he doesn't tour and the only way you can get it is from his myspace page."

a quick google suggests 'clap you hands say yeah' as a pretty clear example of this.

because there are a lot of 010101010s out there and author of a certain portion of those 010101010s would only be harmed by download X if you come in with the assumption that somebody would otherwise be giving them money - which I think is a pretty naive assumption in 2010.

so your argument is, because you wouldn't be willing to pay for the physical item anyway, you should be allowed to download the 0101010s for free because the artist can't lose a sale that wouldn't have happened in the first place??

yeah that sums it up pretty well actually

would rather be naive than quite so shockingly 'entitled'

welcome to america

no, you're welcome to america

i mean jesus when did ilx become a load of douches saying "yeah we take shit for free but what you going to do its capitalism/america/the internet what you going to do"

i know i know, since day 1

have you paid for every single song, movie and tv show you've watched on your computer?

/listened to

to be quite honest, not *every, no - i get send review copies of a lot of stuff, because peeps wants me to write abt it.

so yeah i'm part of the big bad machine i guess

but you know if someone said 'hey, i wasn't going to buy a copy of that black flag book you slaved over for 18 months anyway, so its alright if i steal a copy right?' i would be pretty fucked off tbh

how about movies and tv shows?

that's not logic that's larceny

xp

have not downloaded movies and tv shows, though i have watched youtubes that probably weren't uploaded by the copyright holders

did you pay for photoshop and every single program on your computer? are you that one person out there who really did pay for every single thing on your computer?

i don't have photoshop, and yeah i paid for my copy of word.

"don't sweat it man everybody does it"

yes: i usually wait to pay full-price for the boxed-set dvd of tv shows that are shown for free.

i've downloaded some music for free (esp during ilx's great ysi phase) but it's intellectually hard to defend. now i don't. i think the one movie i've downloaded was michael moore's 'roger and me', not on dvd. so with the odd exception i don't feel too bad -- but, as i say, it's intellectually hard to defend and im a terrible hypocrite whose views should not be heeded.

did you pay for photoshop and every single program on your computer? are you that one person out there who really did pay for every single thing on your computer?

― iatee, Saturday, January 9, 2010 6:12 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark

i stole the whole computer.

they were a rich family and bad things happen to people all the time.

but you know if i was savvy enough to swipe computer programmes off the net, etc, i'd at least admit i was being a cheap cunt, not come up with some bullshit justification for how i "deserved" to have it for free because bill gates is rich and hey fuck it man i wasn't going to give him my money in the first place

I'll bet you can't. Pitchfork isn't just going to listen to everything that comes across their desk, and they're certainly not going to say "Wow, here's some dude in his bedroom with no label and no distribution. Let's put it on "best new music" even though he doesn't tour and the only way you can get it is from his myspace page."

a quick google suggests 'clap you hands say yeah' as a pretty clear example of this.

― iatee, Saturday, January 9, 2010 1:02 PM Bookmark

Clap Your Hands Say Yeah had the same publicist as David Bowie, which might also have something to do with how David Bowie just happened to show up at their shows, which in turn was pretty much the thing that broke them

did they have the publicist from the start?

What does "from the start" mean? They had the publicist when they got big.

i'd at least admit i was being a cheap cunt, not come up with some bullshit justification for how i "deserved" to have it for free because bill gates is rich and hey fuck it man i wasn't going to give him my money in the first place

i mean correct me if i'm wrong but this arguyment wouldn't stand up in court, not even in this place you call 'america'

so the publicist wasn't what made them big

i mean correct me if i'm wrong but this arguyment wouldn't stand up in court, not even in this place you call 'america'

well we're not having a legal argument right now. if we were, I would say yes, you are right, it is illegal to download things.

No, I mean they had the publicist already before they got big.

I mean sorry but you're really fucking naive to buy into this "a million hands across the internets" stuff. It's just a publicity line.

perhaps you should campaign to have the laws changed, your argument is clearly water-tight i don't see how anyone could reasonably object
xp

they were the first thing that came up w/ google search for an example. I don't know anything about them beyond that and I don't think this strain of the argument really matters cause publicists cost money and if the money is disappearing we won't have to worry about them anymore.

perhaps you should campaign to have the laws changed, your argument is clearly water-tight i don't see how anyone could reasonably object

when more people disobey a law than obey it, yeah, maybe it's a law that is gonna have to be changed one day.

But that's exactly the fucking point - it costs money to get people to notice your music.

so when the money disappears people just won't notice music anymore?

when more people disobey a law than obey it, yeah, maybe it's a law that is gonna have to be changed one day.

they say you're a dreamer, but you're not the only one...

when the money disappears the entire infrastructure will disappear. who will found pitchfork, etc?

but i'm sure you've already thought it through this far.

who will found pitchfork?

googlers?

found

When the money disappears I would guess you have more bands that make cheaper albums, have smaller audiences and last for less time.

o brave new world that has such things in it

RIP

a. publicists
b. pitchfork

yeah! fuck the man!

don't you have a free copy of an album to be reviewing?

oh ZING

we may not have money but we can still LAUGH

I would also guess that the exceptions will be bands that are amazingly good at doing their own publicity. I don't think there's anything wrong with that but I don't think it's a good thing to require of every band.