Election (1999)

when david brooks or somebody wrote a column last year about whatever happened to middlebrow culture, sideways was the first thing i thought of. it's ironic middlebrow, but it's still sort of proudly middlebrow. which i think is fine, middlebrow culture deserves some respect. but i think that's payne's whole orientation.

-- tipsy mothra, Thursday, 7 February 2008 08:06 (10 hours ago) Link

lol what ISN'T middlebrow these days? oscar voters and film comment finding middle ground on 'no country' and 'milkshake' == middlebrows have won.

which is fine but what does this guy even mean by 'what happened to it?'?

what is high brow these days?

David Lynch

highbrow is furriners whose unseen movies leave PT Anderson in the dust (Jia, Weerasethakul, Hong, Tsai etc)

yep. figured as much.

I thought you hated Jia, Morbs.

I love all those dudes, but I'm really not interested in claiming them as "highbrow".

betcha you can't name three living 'highbrow' filmmakers working in the US

1. Brett Ratner
2. Uwe Boll
3. Keenan Ivory Wayans

Who gives a shit?

x-p

ahhh, Little Man

x-post

4. Paul Haggis

(i'm totally kidding, i think the whole highbrow/middlebrow/lowbrow distinction is wicked retarded)

^

no, the only Jia film I've found wanting was The World.

Yeah, Fools Gold or Passio. all the same. FART

ps. i really liked sideways and schmidt and ruth and election, and i think that together they make up a neat little canon of very american films about this country, in the present tense. they are praised out of proportion, sure, and sometimes for the wrong reasons ('touching'! 'incisive'!) but they make great use of low-key ironic/comic detachment to tell vaguely realistic stories, while avoiding the So Serious kitchen-sink realism that is the usual provenance of 'highbrow' stories

for the record, i don't think any of them are brilliant. but all of them are entertaining, humane, and unique little trifles

^^^ yes

after election i was kinda disappointed by sideways but really the only thing payne did that i hated was jurassic park 3

though i think election actually is brilliant and the rest are entertaining humane and unique trifles

I never saw Passio, but it seems like burning the negative after screening your movie in a couple of churches is a pretty easy way to pass for highbrow.

or just good PR.

So Serious kitchen-sink realism sounds "middlebrow" to me.

The contempt for the characters is what made About Schmidt unbearable to me. A friend who liked it said, Well yeah, fuckin' Middle American assholes, hooray for honesty.

it might be a matter of parsing: i read payne's portrayal of silly Middle Americans as self-inclusive and knowing, not contemptuous and condescending. there are pretty pervasive thematic resonances of redemption and transcendence running through most of his characters: they are broken and battered and weird, but at heart still good, solid, hopeful people.

yesterday i listened to tony gilroy on 'the treatment.' he talked very poignantly about about how the true meat of the american story is in the phrase 'a few minutes too late' –- a conceit i think payne knows and employs very very well.

they are broken and battered and weird, but at heart still good, solid, hopeful people.

Isn't this patronizing? I don't want Schmidt redeemed -- he's a shit.

as usual people who accuse directors of hating their characters are projecting because they hate the characters themselves

The contempt for the characters is what made About Schmidt unbearable to me.

yeah I couldn't bear this either

i think kathy bates & dermot mulroney are gross caricatures that almost ruin the film but everybody else is nuanced + great

telling stories about people the author hates is as old as fiction ethan wtf

that's kind of mean and off the mark, to my eyes

im not saying that no director has ever made a movie about characters they hated, just that i dont think alexander payne is that dude

look how excited he is to cast all these normal people - do you think he's laughing at the janitor in election or the waitress in about schmidt?

so what if he's a shit, alfred? the whole conceit of the movie is the redemption of a once-decent guy who's turned/been turned into an asshole by the unpleasant business of his life. why would you honestly begrudge his elevation at the end of the film? his return to humanity from asshole crotchetyhood?

and why would you suggest it is patronizing?

nobody has said you have to like the character: it's hard to do so, because he's such an ornery old grump, but he is relatable to an awful lot of people (n1) and that – surely – makes a better film than him sitting in the cold, alone, wallowing in self-pity at the end of the film.

(n1) i'd say 'most', but i'm anticipating a high-and-lofty response from somebody who 'can't' relate)

(please forgive my terribly quick writing, i am switching between two documents @ work)

(i'm totally kidding, i think the whole highbrow/middlebrow/lowbrow distinction is wicked retarded)

It was perhaps once useful, but it's pretty much obsolescent nowadays.

how else could you rationalize watching all those 'quality' TV shows on DVD?

(n1) i'd say 'most', but i'm anticipating a high-and-lofty response from somebody who 'can't' relate)

You can call Shakey by name.

shut the fuck up dr morbius

eat shit Three Six Mafia lamo

are you really turning your nose up at all television?

no, just The OC

Morbs, I was going to say something about how TV does certain things differently than film and there are therefore reasons why one might want to watch a TV show instead of a film (which is not to say either medium is "better"), but I think Ethan expressed my sentiment better.

lol you guys (and what, Dr Morbius) know you're a sitcom, right?

I don't think I've ever said anything about The OC being a "quality" show!

true story: i got in an argument with josh schwartz (at a bar mitzvah, none the less) when we were in high school in RI, but i doubt he remembers.

I don't think Payne hates the characters in Election, but I remember About Schmidt striking me as way more jaundiced and just using its characters as caricatures.

and that – surely – makes a better film than him sitting in the cold, alone, wallowing in self-pity at the end of the film

granted I've only seen this movie once and it was a long time ago but I could've sworn this IS how it ended...?

eat shit Three Six Mafia lamo

bring back changeable usernames

Schmidt opens a surprise letter from Tanzania. It is written by a nun who cares for Ndugu, and she writes briefly but warmly that Ndugu is illiterate but enjoys Schmidt's letters and financial aid very much. With the financial aid, Ngudu was able to receive much needed medical care. The little boy's hand-drawn picture is enclosed, showing two smiling stick figures, one large and one small, holding hands in the blazing sun.

yeah but he's still sitting in his room alone and miserable...? I thought that whole ending was just to show how that letter brought him no satisfaction and didn't change his life one bit.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/projection-tv-front-projection.jpg
shakey mo watching a movie^^^

surprised no-one here has weighed in on 'chuck and larry' yet.

shakey mo, you interpret that scene utterly the opposite way i do