Do Words Belong in Music?

someone should put this thread to music imo

who says "jazz song" about a... not-song?

what makes it a not-song though? i mean, jazz standards are either the definition of a song (like, tin pan alley songs that were once huge popular hits) or written by jazz musicians to expand on those forms.

semantics aside, a few months ago i was collaborating on songs with a poet and it was an interesting experiment. i sort of assumed he'd be able to write good lyrics because he's a good poet and he really loves & pays attention to lyrics in music, but it was super hard for him to do the things that he consciously avoids in poetry (rhymes, and writing blunt things that would look dumb on the page but have power when sung).

The fact that since 1734 the definition of "song" has loosened to such a degree merely means that the ratio needs to return to its 1734 status, post haste.

Jordan, you should read one of the gazillion books by Philip Furia about the lyricists of the Great American Songbook like Yip Harburg and Ira Gershwin, where he contends that the appropriate background for such lyricists was not poetry but "light verse."

I stopped referring to instrumental pieces as "songs" when the band teacher that Granny Dainger and I had in middle school told us that "songs" implied singing. Probably pedantic, but whatever.

I did some jazz D-bag fieldwork last night on this issue. First I went to the first half of the early set at The 55 Bar, where there was a lot of "that composition," "this next piece," "this tribute,blah blah blah and the title is called" etc. Then I went a over a few blocks to Smalls and where octojazzarian pianist John Bunch called every single thing he played a "song." "This song by Jerome Kern," "This Johnny Mandel song," "this Benny Goodman song," "Bucky wrote this song but he was nice enough to give me a credit on it. I've gotten a total of 17 dollars in royalties on it, he could have had that all to himself." Not once did Bucky Pizzarelli lean over to correct him and say, "ah but John that tune has never had lyrics therefore you are in error to call it a song." If you can't believe the Fred Astaire of piano, who you gonna believe?

Of course after they finished up, the next act came on and went back to "this composition," "this piece." Maybe this distinction is taught at Berklee or something.

He's in his 80s. He probably refers to his toothbrush, his great-grandkids, his Muesilix, all as "songs".

Maybe, but even in his 80s the guy could still kick your butt, "Granny." Show some respect.

Fuck words

should just be numbers imo