Fiery Furnaces

Hey Lauren we are discussing it in complicated terms here! And Matthew I don't think anyone was saying they should get off the stage!

I think this conversation is interestingly precisely in the ways that performance enriches and complicates our pleasures in pop. This cuts both ways - I love the fact that the Pixies looked like some kind of Lynchian ID Parade of misfits, it somehow enhanced the music that they didn't look like, say, The Strokes.

I think what people - well RJG initially - were responding to on this thread was less 'pin-up good looks' or not, but a charisma, a quality of performance. And people who had only seen pictures were doubting this.

It seems slightly censorious to suggest that if people have seen a band they shouldnt talk about the performers, just as it would be to suggest people seeing a film should abstain from talking about the weird presence or charisma of the actors.

(BTW: 'routinization of charisma' is a phrase from Max Weber)

Live show is something to do on a Saturday night, when I'd be out spending money anyway. Buying a record is a completely different thing to me (plus, unless you're talking about singles, it is a lot cheaper anyway unless you're seeing some big name act).

the loss of enchantment!

I think there's just a different subtext to the "she's ULGY! like a mom UGLY! Ick!" comments, and that has nothing to do with the performance or the music.

In any case, this is a tempest in a teapot. None of the "hot or not" posts even mentioned how looks have bearing on music until the tempest started. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

This is actually a perfectly sensible, consistent position. If overall value = music + image. Looks can add to music but they can't take away, because hey, they're not music.
Not that I actually see things that way. It's all an interaction, for me.

Of course all of it is moot, as the environment surrounding our listening experience is vital to it. John Cage showed this before most of us were born, why bother trying to refute it?

8/10 for music
8/10 for image

your overall opinion : 16/20

Band B:

8/10 for music
0/10 for looks

your overall opinion : 8/20

In Band A, great looks have added bonus points. In Band B, they look awful, but you still have the 8 points for music.

Sure, you can formulate a system in which minus points are awarded, their looks affecting your enjoyment adversely, such that it would be better if you'd never seen them at all. But what I was suggesting is that Matthew doesn't use that system, and that's fine and not inconsistent.

(Fwiw, as a Brit who's lived in the States at various points, I do find in US indie circles a certain distrust of image, or fabulation in the bands they like. I think this is partly because in the states indie culture exists in a space of its own much more - on college radio etc. In the UK I think we are all basically Pop Kids - even those of us who have complete collections of the Sarah back catalogue. The way UK indie discos will play, eg Justin Timberlake would be kind of anathema in the states I think.)

I think this is very easy to do whether you know what the performers look like or not. I was thinking of this exact Eno quote while listening to TV On The Radio the other day, and I know what they look like.

it's really weird when you're like interested in one member of such a combo and the other member is present, very 'the dreamers' except it isn't a bad movie

this isn't a result of the singer's hawtness but she's still hawt.

I hadn't heard them, before last night, but, yeah, £6+down the hill+pals are going+recommendation=I will go and see them. I have downloaded a few songs and confirmed my slight concerns regarding live Vs. recorded sound. I will still buy the record, though. tomorrow, perhaps.

don't say I can't say she's hawt, again, please.

I think that maybe you loved the gig because you love each other.

Probably the FFs are mediocre. (I have barely or not heard them.)

It is always nice to see JtN talking about indie culture etc, but let me remind him that I hate Justin Timberlake. If I were in an indie or other club and his music came on, I would go up to JtN or someone else nearby and say: I hate this fucking bastard - people like him have ruined my life - and so on.

Actually JT is a good case for the looks / music thing.

I hate his 'music'.

I hate the way he looks.

I hate him.

re. the big questions that everyone is talking about, I am not sure where I stand.

N. would be a less compelling musician if he looked worse. But even as it is, I fear that he is not a very compelling musician. Possibly I am wrong and he has improved.

I would like to hear you sing.

If it were true about you being a compelling singer, then I suppose your combined ratings out of 10 would be off the scale.

Well, no - they would be 17/20 or something.