Grunge - how did the '80s hair metal bands react?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmAyUr4DqAk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB8l3-mGeSg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDY2DVju1c4

Anyway, I think xhuxk is right. Hair metal - if defined as silly, glammy, party-hardy pop-metal - was already on the way out by '91. If anything killed it, it was probably Appetite for Destruction, with its nasty, snarly, darker vibe - though the long-maned, mascara'd beast took a few years to toddle off.

And besides, what is grunge if not the incorporation of metal elements into hardcore? And then grunge elements were re-incorporated back into metal. So it's not who-killed-whom but rather a long dialogue that extends back to the late '70s at least.

Van Hagar did much to bridge the gap between hair metal and Pearl Jam.

It seems that there were a lot of darker currents in popular music and culture in the late '80s/early '90s, or maybe it just seems that way, since the '80s Reagan years were an unusually sunny time for pop culture. But it wasn't just in rock with grunge supplanting pop-metal, you also have gangsta rap (NWA, Ice-T, Cypress Hill, etc.) supplanting fun party rap, the cartoon violence of '80s action-comedy movies being supplanted by the grittier, more realistic violence of Tarantino, etc. - you even have a very dark movie like "Silence of the Lambs" about cannibalism and serial killers sweeping the Oscars in '91. So something was going on in the culture. Maybe it was a reaction to losing the optimistic, grandfatherly presence of Reagan for the dour, slightly creepy Bush Sr. Or a reaction to the uncertainty caused by the fall of Communism. Or the violence related to the crack cocaine epidemic in the inner cities.

"or maybe it just seems that way, since the '80s Reagan years were an unusually sunny time for pop culture."

i'm having trouble remembering the sunny parts! do you mean bobby mcferrin?

It just seems like if you look at the top-selling music, movies and the highest-rated TV shows, etc, it was a more light-hearted, less serious, more optimistic time as compared to the late '80s/early '90s. I realize this could be hard to quantify though.

Whoa on getting all historically accurate and intelligent and shit. I mean grunge was a complete media creation and did not kill hair metal, I was just making a goof thread b/c hair metal is something that absolutely fell from fashion and was derided as false and overblown a la Prog/Arena which was not particularly "killed" by Punk Music but rather Punk as a proposition. Grunge was part of the total Alternative proposition that killed Harmless Music and the '70s music industry dynamic (which survived Punk and flourished through the home taping is killing music era, printed absurd profits on CD markups, etc). It was briefly difficult to be taken seriously as a musician if you were not serious about the content of and popular response to your music. The same white men in tattered clothes was a comically inverse reaction to glam/hair metal and the industry turned comparable profits on Pearl Jam, Nirvana, STP et al. Ultimately all of the major grunge acts were suckered-in or only to happy to help an industry they purported to deride.

a case could be made for or against i guess. there was a lot of fear and loathing too. post-vietnam death trips. threat of nuclear destruction. slasher-mania. sly. arnold.

then again, there were the pointer sisters. mtv was pretty upbeat and colorful.

x-post

Ultimately all of the major grunge acts were suckered-in or only to happy to help an industry they purported to deride.

*drops dishes*

threat of nuclear destruction

I think that having this in the back of people's minds may have contributed to the shallow, materialistic, fun vibe of the '80s - it was like, "Don't think about anything serious, it will just bum you out."

Wait, so where does "99 Luftballons" fit into that equation?

see also Prince's 1999

Nuclear paranoia was definitely a current that runs through the '80s, along with the sharp rise in homelessness, urban decay, and lots of other unhappy things. But the biggest-selling phenomena of '80s pop culture were things like the upbeat idealism of Michael Jackson, the hedonistic fun attitudes of Madonna or Ferris Bueller, the larger-than-life heroism of Sly, Arnold or the A-Team, or the perfect parental role model of a Bill Cosby. The dark underbelly of life in America in the '80s remained mostly out of sight in the mainstream popular culture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTqElk6TpgY

upbeat idealism of Michael Jackson

Uh, did you ever listen to his lyrics? (The music could be pretty dark, too, come to think of it.)

There was a lot more to Madonna than "hedonistic fun," too, as I recall.

And I'm pretty sure Springsteen and Mellencamp had some big songs about, like, the recession and stuff.

also doesn't Bobby McFerrin commit suicide in the Don't Worry Be Happy video

Whatever. Not trying to be cranky -- and pop music did sound pretty celbratory though much of the '80s, one of the things I liked about it -- but there were counter-examples everywhere. And even a lot of the celebratory stuff had a underside that didn't seem quite so optimistic. Lots of paranoia songs, for one thing. (Rockwell, the Police, Men At Work, whoever.) And by 1987 -- hardly the end of the decade -- you had GnR and P.E. and a big album by Metallica, too. ("The Message" was 1982, and it wasn't alone then.)

I think that upbeat idealism and hedonistic fun were a large part of what the broader audience who bought those Madonna and Michael Jackson records was hearing, though of course there was more nuance there if one listened for it.

Any generalization about an entire decade is going to have many exceptions, but what I'm saying isn't terribly novel. Many observers at the time commented on it: The "Daydream Nation" of Sonic Youth's album title. The bafflement of liberals at the hypnotic effectiveness of Reagan's pied-piper act. The alienated subcultures of goths and pig-fuckers who mocked the sunny mood of the mainstream. They were reacting to the same feeling.

one of the only parts about "fargo rock city" that i thought was really good was when klosterman was talking about how you always read that in the 80s everyone was living under some cloud of nuclear war and fear, and he was like "i don't remember even caring or thinking about it as a kid"...i was the same way, none of that stuff seemed real at all, i just wanted to play with star wars toys and ride bike and stuff

I was a kid in the 80s and was totally freaked out about nuclear annihilation - but then I had parents who were part of a anti-nuke group and let me watch stuff like The Day After and Testament

but yeah my emotional/general memories of the 80s boiled down to "wow shit is really terrible what is everybody else so goddamned cheery about"

culturally it really seems its closest analog is the 50s - this outward facade of wide-eyed optimistic consumerism papering over paranoia, racial tensions, etc.

Pretty sure little kids in the '60s, '70s, '90s, and '00s mostly just wanted to play with their toys and ride their bikes, too. (I dunno, maybe a day or two in mid-September 2001 might've been different, but then again I lived in New York.)

It's possible I'm letting my personal experience color my view of the decade, because I was pretty much just a kid in the '80s, so naturally things would have looked different to me if I had been an unemployed rust-belt autoworker or something. But it does seem like there are lots of examples that fit the overall pop-culture trend narrative of mid-'80s optimism giving way to late '80s/early '90s grit and realism.

i think you are right. lots of stuff was hidden from view. there was a definite party in the ruins vibe too. rome before the fall. i was miserable and worried about the bomb and my heroes were joy division, crass, and others like them. so, i was not the norm.

i got all my news from subhumans u.k. lyrics.

i remember lots of talk of nuclear war and how evil the soviets were but i never once thought it might happen.

Grew up two miles away from a primary target - general attitude among the kids was "if it happens, whatcha gonna do?"

I was in the Army for four years in the middle of the decade, setting up communication rigs on hilltops within spitting distance of the East German border, so it seemed real to me. I mean, "99 Luftballons" was a really fun song and all, but it wasn't only fun. (The Clash seemed really big with soldiers at the time, as far as I could tell.)

i was definitely paranoid during the 80's. might have been the coke though. i thought it was pretty evil overall. the reagan sunny 50's thing hiding all the repub evil. and moving to philly in the late 80's during crack fever and homeless epidemic just confirmed all my worst fears about everything.

The '80s were the beginning of the end. That's all so obvious now.

Yeah, I don't remember ever being scared of nuclear war, either (even though I recall in the mid-80s seeing a poll where kids reported it as their #1 fear), but then I was born in '79 and always figured it was the kids just a few years older than me that would've been more cognizant of it.

i was born in 73 and thought it must be older kids who were worried.

http://www.international.ucla.edu/media/images/gilmoregirls3-lrg.jpg

does bryan adams get played on country radio too?

There was a Crossroads crossover show with him and Jason Aldean doing each other's hits -- with Aldean it's "hits" since his songs haven't yet been as successful. There are some similarities, although Aldean's more a Bad Company
copyist.

I was born in 73 and thought it must be older kids who were worried.

Maybe. I played this game a few times, never got very worked up over it. Three Mile Island, which was 50 miles to my west in '79, was far more 'interesting' for a short period of time than potential thermonuclear bombardment.

http://www.dickdestiny.com/blog/2006/07/ultimatum-how-i-learned-to-stop.html

I was born in '74 and tried to build a bomb shelter in my parents' basement. But they wouldn't buy me 1,000 sandbags.

I was born in '73 and had nightmares about nuclear annihilation. But I just embraced GWAR and Ministry and hoped for the best Mad Max-style dystopia possible.

does bryan adams get played on country radio too?

he does in Canada.

i think there is a law though.

It seems that there were a lot of darker currents in popular music and culture in the late '80s/early '90s, or maybe it just seems that way, since the '80s Reagan years were an unusually sunny time for pop culture. But it wasn't just in rock with grunge supplanting pop-metal, you also have gangsta rap (NWA, Ice-T, Cypress Hill, etc.) supplanting fun party rap, the cartoon violence of '80s action-comedy movies being supplanted by the grittier, more realistic violence of Tarantino, etc.

― o. nate, Friday, December 18, 2009 12:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

= me getting all possessive over lame CW truism

So, in what sense did "punk-influenced indie/alt culture" not already exist in the '80s again? (Not even gonna touch the silly "cartoon pop idols" stuff. As if '90s idols were any less cartoonish.)

The 80's were like John Hughes films and Rambo and Rocky sequels on one hand and shit like Blue Velvet on the other hand. New kids on the block and Van Halen on one hand, Appetite For Destruction and NWA on the other hand.

The 90's were more like Forrest Gump on one hand vs Pulp Fiction and Goodfellas on the other hand. Oasis, Barenaked Ladies and En Vogue on one hand, and Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, and Radiohead on the other hand.

I think the biggest cultural differences between the two decades are reflected in television. Married with Children, Roseanne, Seinfeld and the Simpsons vs Family Ties, Cheers, Night Court, Alf.

In the 80s, we all loved OJ. 90s not as much.

One reason I don't buy what you're saying, contenderizer, is that even within what you call "alt culture" it didn't look particularly gritty, and grunge was just one concern among many. Sure, RHCP and Green Day were punk-influenced, but they weren't "no-nonsense"---they pretty much celebrated nonsense! And that's just to look at the hugest bands of the era---when I remember listening to alt radio in the 90s I think of novelties like "Flagpole Sitta" and "Banditos" (and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" too). That was a 1990s for a lot of us---and even the jam bands you mention were pretty far from having authenticity fetishes as I understand that term---the Spin Doctors fit right into the pop novelty culture I loved, as did Blues Traveler, and Phish has always been a goofy pop band.

I mean, you can focus just on the "serious" sides of all these bands, or just point to Alice In Chains or Soundgarden or the album cuts on Doggystyle or whatever but I don't see the pop 90s as anymore "serious" than the 80s. It just had a different bunch of goofballs.