Oum Kalthoum, Om Kolthom, Om Kalsoum, Omm Kalsoum, Omme Kolsoum, Oom Koolsum, Oum Kalthoum, Oum Kalthum, Oum Kalsoum, Oum Kaltsoum, Oum Kolthoum, Oum Koulsoum, Oum Kulthum, Oum Kulthume, Um Kalthoum,

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Poor Laure Daccache, consigned to being a footnote on an Oum Kalthoum thread.

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 13 December 2003 23:27 (sixteen years ago) link

One day this thread and those like it will be one hell of a resource, sir!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 13 December 2003 23:42 (sixteen years ago) link

What do you mean "will be," Ned? ;)

Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 14 December 2003 07:39 (fifteen years ago) link

Dear Rockist Scientist,

Today I went to a record store and saw a discount 5-CD box set of Oum Kalthoum, simply entitled "The Diva." It was on the Next Music label. Do you know anything about this and whether it's worthy? It seems like perhaps it could be a good entry point.

Thank you,

Amateur!st

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Also where can I find "Ya Zalamny"?

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link

Ya Zalamny is pretty easy to get. Try www.maqam.com or www.rashid.com.

If it has these songs:

Volume 1
1. Azkouriny 33:37
2. Salo kaos al fella 31:13

Volume 2
1. Hadeeth al rouh 26:23
2. Ghareb ala bab el raga 22:26

Volume 3
1. Woleda el hoda 56:54

Volume 4
1. Gadet hobak leih 39:18

Volume 5
1. Al nile 27:04
2. Nagh el borda 22:56

Then I recommend it. (Those were posted by H. above.) I don't know every song, but I know some of them, and this is from part of the best part of her career. The only possible downside is that some of the recently reissued separate CDs for these may be remastered and sound better, but frankly, the sound quality is not going to be fantastic for these years.

If it's a collection of the five volume EMI Diva series that has several songs on each CD, I can't personally recommend it, because that's a little earlier than I like. The experts still consider it good material, but I just don't get it myself.

Anyway, if there are more than three songs per CD, then it's probably from earlier than what I'd suggesting listening to. I just looked and I see there are a couple possible box sets this could be, so I don't know exactly what we are dealing with.

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:32 (fifteen years ago) link

Ya Zalamny/i

You can probably find it at amazon or cduniverse, but it will almost invariably cost a lot more.

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:36 (fifteen years ago) link

This isn't the same 5-CD box set as the one noted above! IIRC each CD had more songs, with lengths of around 7-11 minutes each. Although there is a live disc with just two songs I believe. So perhaps it's early material.

I'm somtimes confused as to whether you are referring to albums or songs in your recommendations above.... Or are they one and the same thing essentially? The Gilbert Joseph in Paris has a large collection of O.K. CDs (although I imagine there are Arabic stores aplenty that would have more, and for less money, but I wouldn't know where to find them) from which I might choose.

Can anyone burn a CD of that Laure Daccache stuff for me? I've had no luck finding the CD...

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:37 (fifteen years ago) link

A lot of the recordings are pretty long. My copy of "Ya Zalamny" is couples it with one other song. The "Ya Zalamny" I see currently available is by itself. It's not really a matter of albums, just very long songs, some so long they have to be by themselves, most long enough to fill out a skimpy CD at least.

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Actually it's "Ya Zalimni" SD01B81 on that page.

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 20 December 2003 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link

I checked the time last night, and "Ya Zalamny" is only slightly longer than a half hour, so I have to admit it makes a skimpy one-song CD, but it is worth it.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 01:24 (fifteen years ago) link

four months pass...
http://www.ocolere.ch/oum_khalsoum.jpg

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:01 (fifteen years ago) link

This thread arising again and again somehow makes me feel somewhat better about life and the universe, it does. Despite my still not having in my collection not a single record by Oum Kalthoum, Om Kolthom, Om Kalsoum, Omm Kalsoum, Omme Kolsoum, Oom Koolsum, Oum Kalthoum, Oum Kalthum, Oum Kalsoum, Oum Kaltsoum, Oum Kolthoum, Oum Koulsoum, Oum Kulthum, Oum Kulthume, Um Kalthoum, Um Kolthoum, Umm Kulthum, Umm Kalsoum, Umm Kalthum, Ummu Kulthum or Umm Kulthume.

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:11 (fifteen years ago) link

It makes me feel boring. (I did just get into listening to Robaiyat el-Khayam last night though, and I liked it as usual.)

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:15 (fifteen years ago) link

three months pass...
I just wanted to reiterate that much of "Zikrayat" (which I'm not sure I've mentioned on this particular thread) is really very beautiful, from the beginning of the vocal section. (I still find the instrumental inroduction kind of boring here.) Another great 1950's recording.zik

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:21 (fifteen years ago) link

I feel so guilty that I have only two albums in my possession by Oum, tho I do adore here.

I have somewhatthe same feeling about her as i about classical music - ITS SO GOOD! but also once you start you can never stop so its a lil frightening.

H (Heruy), Friday, 13 August 2004 00:46 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm fortunate in that I don't like classical music or even most jazz. Of course, that's also kind of unfortunate.

Anyway, I don't recommend feeling guilty about it.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 00:55 (fifteen years ago) link

I feel guilty that I bought a copy of The Voice of Egypt about five years ago and I still haven't read it.

Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:08 (fifteen years ago) link

It's a really good book, but it helps to already be very very interested in Umm Kulthum (although it certainly relates to some broader cultural issues). The introductory material is dryer than the rest of the book, from what I remember.

I wasn't aware of all the Oum Kalthoum guilt. Now I feel bad, like I'm responsible for everyone's guilt.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:13 (fifteen years ago) link

I have three CDs, and I really enjoy them - but I bought it more as a guy with an interest in cultural anthropology, as much as a music fan.

Which actually reminds me, Rockist - I first heard of Kalthoum a number of years ago through an old anthropology prof who had asked me to digitize some of his old reel-to-reel tapes (!) of middle eastern music. THe thing was, he didn't remember / hadn't labeled all the tapes, so some of the artists are unidentified. I love this collection (burned myself a copy), and I'd love to find out who some of these people are, but my knowledge is very limited. Could I send you a copy of this thing? Perhaps you might recognize some of the artists. Let me know...

Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:28 (fifteen years ago) link

(bought the book for the anthro, not the cds, that is)

Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:29 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh definitely, I would be willing to try to indentify some of it. I will send you my address. (I will probably do this tomorrow, since I'm ready to log off.)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:40 (fifteen years ago) link

Sound good! And no trade or anything involved - I'm just really really curious to find out what this stuff is so I'd be more than happy to send it your way. hit me up at this email address.

Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:45 (fifteen years ago) link

R.S.: Do you think you could make me a few CDRs of the best O.K. music you know? I am penniless at the moment so I can't explore this on my own. I could make you some CDRs of...well whatever you might like to hear that is in my collection (lots of pre-WWII stuff for example). If this interests you at email, please email me.

Did you ever have any luck finding anything else by Laure Daccache? I looked everywhere in Paris for the one CD that had been released (on some tiny French label), but turned up empty-handed.

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Friday, 13 August 2004 04:31 (fifteen years ago) link

Stupidest name of the 20th century, maybe.

Sasha (sgh), Friday, 13 August 2004 06:14 (fifteen years ago) link

fuck off sasha

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Friday, 13 August 2004 06:20 (fifteen years ago) link

amateurist, when did you get a burner? I still am burner-less. (No one seems to believe me when I say I can't make copies of stuff for people and when I am able to I will start contacting people.)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 10:24 (fifteen years ago) link

according to my dad, whos knowledge of arabic is slim, but still much greater than mine, Kolthoum means "pure voice." which makes he the mother of pure voice.

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:08 (fifteen years ago) link

I bought a cheap comp.(?) called Mother Of The Arabs a little while ago, to rry and find out what all the fuss (here, mainly!) was about.

I've only listened to it once and I know I really ought to give it another try but I'm afraid I'm not over inclined to 'cos it really didn't anything for me at all the first time.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Isn't that the one I told you would be hard to get into? The big hint is: any CD with more than three of her songs on it is probably going to contain songs from her earliest phase, which is, in my opinion, her least approachable material, and certainly quite a bit different than what came later.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 13 August 2004 11:31 (fifteen years ago) link

"Isn't that the one I told you would be hard to get into?"

It is and you did; but alas it was too late!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:32 (fifteen years ago) link

Also, I want to reiterate that for me (though not necessarily for everyone), it's less to do with her voice per se, as an instrument, than with her singing. (Not that I don't enjoy her voice itself in certain songs, but I've found it harder to acquire a taste for her voice than an appreciation of how she sings.)

x-post: Oh well. I don't even like her songs from before the late 30's, except for one or two. (I think that might be due to a heavy Turkish influence on the compositions she sang in her early years.)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:38 (fifteen years ago) link

I just happened to hear Oum Kalthoum unexpectedly on the radio two weeks ago - well, on this international/world music show on 90.7 KPFK. The entire show was dedicated to her, with this one modern Egyptian singer, I forget the name, covering a standard of Oum's towards the beginning, in order to promote a show she was doing locally to celebrate Oum's recording centennial or something. Isn't Los Angeles wunderful ?

The sounds were very easy for me to immediatey warm to, as it sounded like a variation on hindustani music, yet I must admit that the modern singer was more accessible, voice-wise, than Oum. But she wuz still c00l.

Vic (Vic), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:41 (fifteen years ago) link

The initial impression I came away with (warning: I am about to start talking about areas of music that even I am prepared to admit I know absolutely fuck all about!) like a cross between an Arabic call to prayer and something out of a very old Bollywood movie or that I might expect to hear playing in the background in an Indian restaurant.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:45 (fifteen years ago) link

That's what I meant when i said hindustani - "classical" north indian, even though that in itself is the name of the style that's heavily been influenced by islamic culture. From even before the Mughal period onwards, persian/turkish/arabic and indian styles mixed to shape hindustani which developed in the north, as opposed to carnatic which remained largely untouched in the south. Both can be heard in indian cinema.

Vic (Vic), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:57 (fifteen years ago) link

Thanks Vic, you've almost made me feel as if I was really making some genuine, valid, meaningful, informed observation as opposed to talking completely out of my arse (which sadly, of course, I was)!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:10 (fifteen years ago) link

It's all interconnected, man.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:55 (fifteen years ago) link

RS: actually i don't have a burner, but i have friends whose burners i could use. i'm actually really happy, in a strange way, that you don't have a burner. i often feel a little left out for not having a burner, soulseek, or whatever program people are using now to get free music. (i don't have enough money to buy new music, either, at the moment.)

amateur!!!st, Friday, 13 August 2004 15:11 (fifteen years ago) link

Stewart, the compilation you got might be movie songs too, which would be a little different the material I was thinking of, but still not my favorite stuff, generally. I guess it doesn't matter really.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:54 (fifteen years ago) link

it's less to do with her voice per se, as an instrument, than with her singing.

I see what you're saying. I just bought the Buda Musique El Sett CD (due largely to this thread) and, yeah, her voice doesn't seem "beautiful" in a conventionally western sense (unlike, say, Amalia Rodriguez, who when I first heard her, I said OMFG) but even on first listen I'm intrigued by her vocalization. There's something there that fascinates. And this, of course, is all 30's material--the only thing immediately available to me. Thanks for the tips!

Paul Ess (Paul Ess), Saturday, 14 August 2004 02:02 (fifteen years ago) link

I just listened to some samples from El Sett/the Lady, and some of that stuff sounds pretty good to me. "Tab en-nasim Al Alil" is in a style that I like (judging from a brief sound-bite). Also, I see that the collection gathers work from later than what I was assuming. So I don't know what to say, though I would still recommend that people start with something like Roubaiyat el Khayam from 1949/50. I think it's actually harder to appreciate the straight studio recordings than the live recordings, because in the live recordings you get to hear her improvising on the songs she is singing, which is where much of her greatness lies, in my opinion.

Also, it really helps if you can see some live footage of her performances.

(I was disappointed when I finally heard some Amalia Rodriguez, incidentally. "World music diva" fite!)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 14 August 2004 12:39 (fifteen years ago) link

I think her singing is paradoxically phallic, penetrant. Warning: I may be saying that partly to play to gay &/or post-structuralist readers of this thread.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 14 August 2004 12:46 (fifteen years ago) link

Gender and half-assed nods to queer theory, etc. aside, I do experience much of this singing as penetrating, and in a pleasant way, so I think the metaphor of forceful and filling, but welcome, sexual penetration might actually be pretty good, even if sexual metaphors are overused in musical discussions (and even if I don't speak from experience). Her voice is thick and even drill-like at times, but again, in a pleasurable way.

(The complexities of what she does with her voice can't adequately be modeled by pelvic thrusting though.)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 14 August 2004 13:06 (fifteen years ago) link

one month passes...
I ordered a copy of Robaiayt el Khayam (among other things) to donate it to the library where I work. After checking on how the cataloging of the CD is progressing, I now discover that the CD inside was actually Sahran Lewahdi. That is also a great recording, however, a less ideal starting point, I think. (Also, something I can't listen to in just about any mood, the way I can listen to Robaiyat el Khayam.) I guess I will see if a distributor can send me a copy of Robaiyat, checking to see what disc is inside, before sending it. The Saudi recording industry needs to get its act together! While I am at it, I might as well donate Ana fe Entazark as well.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:45 (fifteen years ago) link

I really like "Oum Transmissions." I wish I'd thought of that before. Maybe I should start a new thread under that title.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:49 (fifteen years ago) link

I would like to listen to more Oum Kalthoum.

Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:26 (fifteen years ago) link

The Saudi recording industry needs to get its act together!

this is a very politically sensitive issue, R.S. america's dependency on saudi arabian music is something that out government needs to reevaluate. perhaps they can look into alernative sourcse of arabian music, or more efficiently utilize relatively untapped resources of arabian music in alaska or the texas panhandle.

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:28 (fifteen years ago) link

I would like to listen to more Oum Kalthoum.

That's the spirit.

amateurist, the whole idea of buying CDs made in a country whose official theology is anti-music (or something close to that) is baffling.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:43 (fifteen years ago) link

i was just making a funny.

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:03 (fifteen years ago) link

(funniness of funny not guaranteed)

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:03 (fifteen years ago) link


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