Come anticipate David Fincher's "Zodiac"

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I liked them all too! Its just that by the final third of the film I was getting antsy for some conclusions, and in retrospect those were just two of the sequences that happen to stand out as inessential to the overall plot.

Do you know the deal with that roadside abduction sequence, was that actually attributed to Zodiac, etc.? I went into this movie totally unfamiliar with the case and by and large don't care how "accurate" Fincher is in general, but the inclusion of this seemingly inconsequential incident made me wonder why it's included.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 19 March 2007 21:00 (seventeen years ago) link

gah that last sentence of mine is a horrible grammatical trainwreck, sorry.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 19 March 2007 21:01 (seventeen years ago) link

i dunno, those scenes fit for me because they capture the feeling of the time, the craziness of it while it happened

― latebloomer, Monday, 19 March 2007 21:03 (seventeen years ago) link

even that long scene in the projectionist's house/the Rick Marshall subplot? That bothered me more than the roadside abduction or the final airport sequence. The audience spends roughly 20 minutes thinking Graysmith's on the tail of the "real" killer, only to circle back and settle on the original number one suspect.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 19 March 2007 21:08 (seventeen years ago) link

"Do you know the deal with that roadside abduction sequence, was that actually attributed to Zodiac, etc.?"

I think the general consensus is that it was not the Zodiac. I mean fuck nobody knows anything. The case was/is such a monstrous mess that it's impossible to know anything that happened. All that is for sure is that 1) the person that committed the two Vallejo murders wrote a series of letters as the Zodiac which contained evidence that only the killer was likely to know, 2) the writing on the car at Lake Berryesa and certain details of that crime are very consistent with the first two murders, but the Zodiac never took credit for the murders in any letters and 3) the murder of the cabbie is clearly linked to the Zodiac by virtue of the bloody shirt which was sent to the Chronicle. Everything else is pretty impossible to pin down.

― Alex in SF, Monday, 19 March 2007 21:13 (seventeen years ago) link

I like the Rick Marshall sequence because it really highlights what a complete runaround the whole thing was.

― Alex in SF, Monday, 19 March 2007 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean the amazing thing about the Zodiac is that as a killer the guy was no super-criminal or anything. In fact exactly the opposite. He was basically a complete fuck up. He was constantly leaving his victims alive, dropping physical evidence left and right and even nearly getting caught (that description goes out correctly in Fall '69 and all this is just another crazy killer who got busted ya know. But he lucked out and never got arrested and then either died or went insane or got scared (presumably) into either a) stopping or b) publically taking credit for his crimes. So yeah these were no perfect murders or anything. But in terms of manipulating the media, of building his relatively modest crimes to absolute hysterical pitch, and ultimately drowning the police in a glut of false leads and endless investigations, the guy was a genius.

― Alex in SF, Monday, 19 March 2007 21:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I did appreciate that the scene at the projectionist's house is set-up as the classic serial killer "gotcha!" reveal scene (cf. Silence of the Lambs) where you're totally expecting Graysmith to get attacked and then it just ... peters out... which is funny in a subverting-the-expectations-of-the-viewer but also kinda annoying for the same reason.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 19 March 2007 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

the movie makes it look like the main reason he wasn't caught was cuz the murders were all in different jurisdictions.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

well...

― latebloomer, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link

i loved the red herring stuff!

and i especially liked the projectionist scene. so mysterious. i thought it played on the horror movie conventions really well.

― s1ocki, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:16 (seventeen years ago) link

i loved the red herring stuff!

and i especially liked the projectionist scene. so mysterious. i thought it played on the horror movie conventions really well.

― s1ocki, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:16 (seventeen years ago) link

the movie makes it look like the main reason he wasn't caught was cuz the murders were all in different jurisdictions.

And because no one had text messaging.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:19 (seventeen years ago) link

omg zodiac is stabbing me lolz pos

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

"the movie makes it look like the main reason he wasn't caught was cuz the murders were all in different jurisdictions."

That's certainly helped.

― Alex in SF, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

one of the better things about the projectionist scene is that the guy does not match the physical description of Zodiac in any way and seems only peripherally connected to the killings, but because of the way the meeting's been set up and Graysmith's paranoia and the way the scene is staged you still get the total "omg Jake RUN HE'S THE KILLER!" vibe from it.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:22 (seventeen years ago) link

unrelated - the scenes at Original Joe's made me really happy. way to zero in on SF venue that really hasn't changed in 30+ years!

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

That's one of the reasons why the scene is brilliant!

It also makes the scenes with Allen really weird too! The police sketch of the Zodiac looks nothing like Allen (either IRL or the actor playing him!)

― Alex in SF, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I miss Zims. I wish they could have recreated Zims for this movie.

― Alex in SF, Monday, 19 March 2007 22:27 (seventeen years ago) link

This has grossed about $33 mil in N America in a month, which I'd say qualifies as a disaster. Hope to see it on Good Friday.

― Dr Morbius, Monday, 2 April 2007 13:44 (seventeen years ago) link

i made that same comparison – eazy – between fincher and mann. i think there's a point to be explored by somebody more articulate than myself about their equivalent grasp and appreciation of a, shall we say, poetically elegant urban environment?

-- remy bean, Monday, March 5, 2007 12:46 AM (4 weeks ago)

^^^ yes

i wanna see this again before it gets rushed out of theaters

― and what, Monday, 2 April 2007 13:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Penance?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 2 April 2007 13:57 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah i wouldn't mind "rescreening" this myself!

― s1ocki, Monday, 2 April 2007 14:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Saw it for the first time this weekend. Only complaint: not enough Robert Downey Jr. More thoughts as they come to me.

What a fucked up mess this investigation was.

― kenan, Monday, 2 April 2007 14:50 (seventeen years ago) link

really really liked this, especially for the first half i was giddy. it loses steam towards the end (on purpose obviously) so it'll take a future viewing for me to decide how good it really is. totally good/interesting tho.

― ryan, Thursday, 5 April 2007 07:18 (seventeen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Mostly neatly done (except for the overlength of course). Also about nothing much except the plot, which is why true crime is a who-cares genre for me.

The glam presentation of the first murder: big mistake.

so why fid Avery write Z could've been a "latent homosexual"? This is pretty amusing when Downey is playing him.

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:34 (seventeen years ago) link

^why did Avery

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Zodiac was teh suck. Not until the very end did I say to myself, "Oh, this movie is supposed to be about Gyllenhaal's character." Which, yawn. "Capote" did the "about the story, but really about the story of the story" thing pretty much better.

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Given the opening post, it's funny that the Edwards-Ruffalo scenes are the least strained in the film. Good thing I don't watch contemporary cop shows, or those might've seemed thin too.

Jake as Graysmith was straight-arrow/obsessed-man two-dimensionality.

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

i assume youre referring to the swelling of hurdy gurdy man? i can buy that from an ethical standpoint i guess but not a cinematic one, i thought all the murders were staged really well. god i sound like an amoral cunt.

totally otm about the plot-centricity leading to dullsville though.

― deeznuts, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:41 (seventeen years ago) link

the movie's not really about the plot at all, morbius! what's the plot?

― s1ocki, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:41 (seventeen years ago) link

lol u enable murdurars liek cho BEARTARP

― Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:43 (seventeen years ago) link

the plot is WHODUNIT

i assume youre referring to the swelling of hurdy gurdy man?

Not solely, no. That it looked REALLY COOL!

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:01 (seventeen years ago) link

the actual murders?? i totally disagree

― deeznuts, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Mark Ruffalo is lights-out

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:10 (seventeen years ago) link

A Matt Zoller Seitz essay on the film -- good debate in the Comments; MZS:

I think showing the murders was probably a mistake, and that if Fincher and Vanderbilt felt they had to show them, they should have done so from a discreet, ugly distance, like we're peeping through a slaughterhouse door at a killing on the other side of the building. "Summer of Sam," a similar film in certain ways, made the same mistake as Fincher. The violence went beyond fascination and into revelry, and the filmmaker saying, "Well, that's true to life -- it's the tabloid mentality" really doesn't cut it.

The movie's so surefooted in every other way that these errors stand out more than they would in a lesser film.

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:13 (seventeen years ago) link

like i said i can see that with the first (which i maintain was a great scene), but the one at the beach was absolutely horrific. its been awhile but as i recall the acutal shootings in the first one were done (after the first gunshot) from a static (& distant) angle, and were very far from 'glammed up'

tbh i thought the murders/suspense scene (in the basement) were the highlights of the flick

― deeznuts, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:20 (seventeen years ago) link

i liked this a lot. the plot is surely a red herring if there ever was one. i cant decide how im supposed to take the ending, however.

― ryan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link

the attack at Lake Berryessa is totally disturbing and as unglamorous a staging of the event as you could make.

I think the opening murder sequence is amazing, but I can see how its more "sensationalized" elements (the Donovan song, etc.) might be off-putting.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I am bummed this failed so badly, as its probably my favorite Fincher film to-date. I am really put off by most of his other films.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:28 (seventeen years ago) link

well in some respects i think it IS supposed to be "sexy"--else why the fascination? it wasnt some hold up gone bad.

― ryan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:28 (seventeen years ago) link

shakey et al the only reason that song is in there is because they actually were listening to the radio at the time it happened, i read up on that afterwards

(for those curious the guy the movie insinuates did it almost certainly did not)

― deeznuts, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:33 (seventeen years ago) link

& even if you dont agree it is sceenwise, its completely period appropriate

― deeznuts, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:34 (seventeen years ago) link

The contrast between the absolute clarity of the visuals and the absolute mystery of the narrative is Zodiac's very best joke.

totally OTM, great essay - thx Morbs

and deez don't get me wrong I really dug the integration of Hurdy Gurdy Man and thought it worked seamlessly within the scene. But I can understand how another viewer would just see/hear "rock song + murder = exploitation".

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Hurdy Gurdy Man scene has a "wow, amping up this song will make this a classic" vibe, kinda ugh. I thought the comment on MZS's blog that it shoulda stayed "on the radio" was a good point. I never thought the lakefront murder was glam.

It's a good film, but I prefer Fight Club and Se7en. They're funnier.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 13:47 (seventeen years ago) link

loved this movie

― and what, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link

but Fight Club is so goddamned silly.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 15:54 (seventeen years ago) link

no, really. Chuck Palahniuk's other books, those are silly. The Fincher movie only gets silly in the fairly conventional chase stuff in the last reel, but recovers nicely for the Kill Your Inner Iron John ending.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 15:57 (seventeen years ago) link

haha iron john

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 15:59 (seventeen years ago) link

fight club is unwatchable

― and what, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 15:59 (seventeen years ago) link

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