Moronic Things Bike Riders Do

stupidest thing to do by far is ride w/o a helmet

i'd like to see the numbers on brakeless riding: are brakeless riders getting into significantly more accidents? or is it such a self-selecting bunch that it's a wash? (ie - most of the people that I know that ride brakeless (HI DERE!) are pretty good at it). what's more likely to happen: getting hit by a random driver through no fault of your own, or hitting something because you couldn't stop in time? honest question.

ditto iPod riding (though I tend to frown on this, myself...the volume you have to crank in order to hear anything OVER traffic noise is deafening and totally bell jar).

however, riding without a helmet is demonstrably more dangerous in the long run. if you assume that nearly every regular city rider WILL get into an accident at some point, they'd better be wearing a helmet.

ditto iPod riding (though I tend to frown on this, myself...the volume you have to crank in order to hear anything OVER traffic noise is deafening and totally bell jar).

however, riding without a helmet is demonstrably more dangerous in the long run. if you assume that nearly every regular city rider WILL get into an accident at some point, they'd better be wearing a helmet.

-- gbx, Tuesday, February 5, 2008 2:50 PM (16 minutes ago)

no way... as soon as i was confident about city riding on my bike i made a compilation and rode around with it for a day or two. haaaaaaated it, HATED it, couldn't hear a f'in thing, and it wasn't turned up loud. i am quite easily distracted by music though.

Well there are a number of reasons for that - you're in a big box with airbags

In other words "I'm alright jack"

very seldom does the sound of other traffic etc. determine your next action (unlike when you're on a bike, when you have to be aware at all times of the sound of other vehicles)

In other words, cyclists watch out for yourselves 'cause car drivers certainly ain't going to watch out for you.

I know it makes sense, that cyclists are more vulnerable and less visible, so have to be more aware and more responsible - and that there'd be an outcry if stereos in cars were banned. Still it does seem that motorists get to be somewhat unfairly blasé .

if you assume that nearly every regular city rider WILL get into an accident at some point, they'd better be wearing a helmet.

it's not that simple though. if it was then the same logic would apply to motorists and pedestrians. there's (pretty contrarian, admittedly) data that purports to show that an individual cyclist wearing a helment is more likely to get into an accident because they ride less cautiously and -- more significantly -- motorists treat them with less caution. also, there's pretty irrefutable evidence that helmet laws reduce cycling take-up, which makes motorists less used to sharing roads with cyclists, which makes it more dangerous.

so the questions are, given the obvious fact that once you're in an accident you're (much) better off wearing a helmet:

- if the individual wears a helmet on a given day, are they more likely to get into an accident?
- if the entire population of cyclists started wearing helmets, would there be more accidents?

(These are not the same question.)

If not wearing a helmet is moronic then the entire population of continental Europe are morons.

Yeah but they're in Europe, not New York Fucking City. As was pointed out to me early Sunday morning.

By someone on this thread.

Sure, but the poll option is "Biking without a helmet" not "Biking without a helmet in NYC"

ALL OF THE ABOVE + BEERS!! YAY!

"there's (pretty contrarian, admittedly) data that purports to show that an individual cyclist wearing a helment is more likely to get into an accident because they ride less cautiously and -- more significantly -- motorists treat them with less caution"

My personal feeling is that this data is bullshit and every cyclist I see without a helmet in SF basically proves it.

"most of the people that I know that ride brakeless (HI DERE!) are pretty good at it"

Anecdotally I would say this is also bullshit. That said I'm not sure what came be gleaned statistically from any studies given that the population of non-break vs. break cyclists are so totally distinct in terms of the amount and kind of riding they do.

depending how yr doin what yr doin, no helmet is probly stupidest, ipod next, then brakeless imo. im most likely to do ipod, then helmet, and ill never do brakeless off the track as it seems a pointless exercise to me, no payoff whatever. thats me tho.

"Sure, but the poll option is "Biking without a helmet" not "Biking without a helmet in NYC""

Well specifically in city traffic. Out in the middle of nowhwere all of these things are relatively fine.

No, in non-city traffic both cyclists AND drivers are probably traveling at higher speeds, actually. I mean, that's what those long smooth un-patrolled roads are FOR, rite??

But anyway I was arguing to gbx that all those cuet grills in Amsterdam and etc who get on the photo blogs are always riding without helmets but then they probably DO have the infrastructure for it unlike city-traffic NYC.

I was also wearing heels so...

Also it was 2.30am and we were both substantially un-sober.

"most of the people that I know that ride brakeless (HI DERE!) are pretty good at it"

skiddingguybreakingkidsarm.mpg

"substantially" <--- correct, at least in my case maybe

also skiddingguybreakingkidsarm is a stupid strawman, mark, do better. dude was intentionally skidding his bike downhill in a WHO CAN SKID LONGEST competition when a dumb kid ran in front of him. try harder.

that being said, which guy left the house this morning, late for work, and didn't grab his helmet :-/

Dude I know, it wasn't meant seriously. Hence the patented hilarious ilx "funnyzing.extension" formula.

I've never ridden a fixie so I have no clue if your braking distance is longer when you skid.

It's longer when you skid. A lot longer.

i was crabby; long day in the rain, forgot both my work and personal cell phones in a car in Hyde Park, which is about a thousand miles away.

braking distance is longer if you're trying intentionally to see how long you can go after you've locked up your rear wheel

Okay then it's a LOT longer, but it still takes a long time to skid stop than it does to brake even if you are trying.

long = longer

Yeah but you purposefully don't get up to speeds as high on a fixed because you know you might/will have to stop short, whereas as guy in skid comp had that as his precise GOAL. (Also is why Shasta complained that brakeless riders are slower down hills.)

This is why the crazed mssgr city traffic thing came about in the first place, to never have to make those full stops...but I have a suspicion really hardly anyone outside of Monstertracks & YouTube vids rides that aggressively. Or not for much of the overall percentage of their time on the bike.

My eyes say that your suspicion is incorrect. Seriously the most reckless cyclists in SF are the guys who are doing the first two things on my list. I don't buy that they are biking slower or are more careful or any crap like that.

Fine with me, I've never been to SF and Shasta is our resident expert, anyway.

I never see people hot-dogging but then I don't hang around midtown/Times Square/hi-traff areas watching bike messengers. Definitely in Bklyn and around quieter parts of town I don't see much besides normal people, riding normally, whether fixed or free.

AND REALLY, DON'T WE ALL JUST WANNA BE FREE, BRETHREN AND SISTREN?

Sistren? Are there any other women on this board?

The fixie couriers in London are the most reckless cyclists I see too (and there are like half a dozen courier offices within 200 yards of my office).

Alex, I pass these fuckers on Market and Hayes and the Wiggle all the time (like everyday), just because you moved to the lowlands with no hills doesn't mean that these guys don't ride differently when they head up into my territory, the SF Alps.

No brake guys are NOTORIOUSLY slow going downhill so that they can skid to a point and they can execute their 5 minute trackstand (I'm talking specifically on Octavia/Market which I pass at least 1 no-brake guy once every day). And then I end up LANCEing by them anyway while they are trying to get any leverage out of their 14" chopped straight/riser bars while out of the saddle (most idiotic fixie technique ever).

I'm not in any hurry to get to a red light but you'd be surprised how these guys gingerly approach heavily trafficed intersections midway down hills.

"Alex, I pass these fuckers on Market and Hayes and the Wiggle all the time (like everyday), just because you moved to the lowlands with no hills doesn't mean that these guys don't ride differently when they head up into my territory, the SF Alps."

WTF do the hills have to do with my point (btw I do watch some of these guys go down Page or Haight to Scott and if they are taking that hill gingerly I've never noticed)? They are biking through city traffic on Market, on Valencia, on Van Ness, etc, fast as any other cyclists, often not stopping at redlights or stop signs (often barely slowing down at them) and generally paying attention to little more than how sweet their new Pista Concept or whatever looks.

To repeat, I claimed that no-brakes guys were slower on downhills which Laurel echoed, and then you disagreed with. I am just reemphasizing that they are slower on downhills.

To repeat, I disagreed with her saying that hardly anyone in SF rides brakeless that aggressively. If neither of you are actually saying that, we have no disagreement.

OMGZ

Haha okay this has gotten perhaps a little testy (not unlike real life convos with Steve--whose opinions on Bob Marley I WILL NEVER SHARE.) Anyway in all seriousness going slowly down hills does not indicate caution as much as it indicates a desire to avoid certain death. Steep SF hills are very very difficult if not at times impossible to stop on without a brake if you've built up any kind of head of steam. These guys are not going slowly because they are careful, but rather because the alternative is basically suicide. In other situations where there are options besides very very safe and an early grave, the behavior I've seen exhibited veers far far closer to the latter than the arguments I'm seeing above would have you believe.

Sistren? Are there any other women on this board?
i read but
do not post because i am not tuff enough

Don't worry, the boys aren't all as tuff as they'd like you to think either.

but fwiw i would not do any of these things, but i am also not at all daredevilish.

i was thinking of starting a thread on this board, but now i forgot what it was. i'll be less sheepish once i start riding my bike again. too much snow at the mo.

Alex, I was basing my ideas on keeping speed down partly on just rational considerations and partly on comments gbx has made over time about wanting a non-fixed bike so he could get up more speed, and seeing fixed riders around Bklyn not being especially speedy -- when I ride with peeps they're more careful about intersections than I am, usu. So stuff that's as anecdotal as your own observations, nothing more. I don't hang out on Broadway at rush hour, though, so I gots no idea what the people who think they're hardcore do.

Alex,

Legend is the greatest reggae album ever.

Love,

Steve Shasta with a front brake

Also to the list on this thread can I add: I have seen some crazy gyrations and convolutions in order not to have to stop at intersections. Crossing left across your traffic when the light is red cos you know cars'll be stopped is one thing, but going down the street out of your way in order to get around the back of an oncoming vehic...like, you really had to turn right and go three car lengths to get behind that truck, just so you could go straight? Is this like being nine yrs old and the ground is lava?

You're moving at a crawl by that time anyway, you're hardly conserving any momentum. Does it matter that much?

GET A SKATEBOARD.

i am v v tuff

Steve,

It is not even the best Bob album.

Love,

Alex SF with a front brake

THE BEST BOB MARLEY ALBUM IS 40oz OF FREEDOM

^^^^^^^

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HLzGj10fg2g

write-in vote: cycling on the pavement

Idiot courier in that film nearly wiped out a bicycle paramedic.

This doesn't really fit in this thread, but what do we think?

Cyclist sues cyclist

been crashed, crashed others on training rides-theyre dangerous. low opinion of claim generally

as a pure hypothetical and disclaiming all-

liability sounds soso. manholes are pretty standard foreseeable danger. the plaintiff was injured going off the road, not hitting the first faller, but still sounds like enough for causation.

i dont know uk comparitive negligence law. pacelining is dangerous, the activity generally requires assumption of risk. now,racing on open roads, is that legal in uk? i thot not. maybe the plaintiff is negligent per se himself if so.

I'd have thought that being part of such a group you have to accept the dangers involved. And it was a pure accident, no malice involved.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I don't know where to put this so I'm putting it here...

Berlin bans fixies

or maybe just those without brakes.

But Benno Koch, Berlin’s official ombudsman for bicycle issues, said ... that he had been able to defuse the situation somewhat by hammering out the conditions cyclists can get their confiscated bikes back.

apparently these conditions not interestin enough to actually put in the article though.

"Put a front brake on it"

So many idiots cycling while wearing headphones on my way to work this morning. It's not like they compensate for this sensory deprivation by being extra-observant either.

Will shed no tears if I ever see one crushed beneath the wheels of an artic.

one million old school fixie riders vs hipster fixie strawman youtube arguments to thread. zzz

all these things in this poll depend on where you are. i'd want a helmet in london/nyc, but where i am it's full of cyclists and i'd say less than 25% wear helmets. some places are ridiculously safe, some aren't.

cyclists with ipods are infuriating when you're following them, espeically when they take up the whole cycle bath besides a busy road and you're trying to train/keep a decent pace. arghh.

bath = path

I'm not annoyed w anyone yet! Give me a couple of weeks....

No wait I take that back, but this is nothing new: people riding the wrong way on one-way sts. Prob already covered that x7 around here somewhere.

people riding the wrong way on one-way sts.

i had someone going the wrong way on a 2-way street, like on my side against traffic coming right at me forcing me to swerve into the middle of the lane around him. not a busy street but still an asshole move

• switching to the other side of the street before making left turns

the other side? that doesn't make sense. I switch to the middle...

yeah like they are afraid of going to the middle of the street so they go the wrong way so they can "safely" make a left turn

nah i've done that. You see a column of traffic coming up cross before it gets to you or else you're stuck waiting in the middle of the lane. Was chided by a cop for it once iirc

yeah i am not talking about making an exception when it's necessary i am talking about people who are doing it wrong

"Wrong" side here is flexible if there's no bike lane...because you might think that you're supposed to ride to the right of traffic (basic rules) but then bike lanes are usu to the left of traffic (to keep them away from buses, I think) so there's precedent for both sides.

I don't rly understand what yr talking about, harbl? Frankly I'd do it if I could make the left without stopping & waiting...but that's a cheat and I know it.

wrong side = the left side of the street. bike lanes are to the left of traffic???

i am not talking about bike lanes btw. people riding in the street, wanting to go left, getting scared, switching to the wrong side of the street to turn so they can stay by the curb. nevermind. i thought this was a common thing novices do!

noob left turns are going through the intersection, stopping at the crosswalk, and then waiting for the light to go red instead of cowboying the fuck up and taking the lane like an adult

To be perfectly clear: bike lanes are on the left of traffic on a lot of 1-way streets in NY (possibly on all one-way sts but I cannot personally verify) and I don't know specifically why but it definitely keeps bikes away from buses (which stop and go on the right side of traffic). So the ansewr to your question is "yes".

I don't know where you live, harbl? There kind of are no curbs on most streets that I can think of here, b/c there are cars parked all the way down both sides instead. So

i am thinking of two-way streets. this would obviously not be a problem on a one-way as long as you're turning on to another one-way. by curb i mean, the side of the street. i guess i'm the only person in the world who has seen people do this then. though the crosswalk thing is another version of it. wish i could draw a picture

i live in not-nyc btw

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/12/1216_anne_hathaway_fnp_ew_0044302-copy.jpg

^^
no helmet
no ipod
front brake tho

^^^guilty of aerospoking and hipstering

lavender and fuchsia

ride bikes

waht does ur bike look like cankles

If I accidentally hit a cyclist who, it turned out, had no front brake, I would take every pleasure in seeing their compensation case fall apart like so me=any badly-constructed plastic-spoke wheels.

sorry, drunk syntax. "like some badly-". Am disappointed to see this guy did have a front brake considering what a cunt he looks like.

you should go out and teach someone a lesson

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4409955768_24fd11de70_b.jpg

backstory: east bay dude has a shit ton of bikes that he keeps in his (locked) garage. wakes up one morning, goes outside, notices garage door is open, only one of his bikes is missing...

also, if you have the $$$$ for nagasawa and dura ace drivetrain, surely you have the money for an equivalent wheelset? it's like putting camaro wheels on a ferrari.

In honor of seeing someone do all three at the same time this weekend.

― Alex in SF, Monday, February 4, 2008 5:57 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

p-i-m-p

some contenders in this

http://vimeo.com/24572222

obv it's cherrypicking the worst contenders - and lots of the situations highlighted really aren't all that bad - still i've never seen cycling that insane in london. charging between two lanes of moving traffic *in the opposite direction* wtf

dude on kingsland road about 6pm yesterday wins this thread

no brake
headphones
no helmet

in addition, chains, lock, badges, shit hanging off him and his bike - "courier style"

annoys pretty much every cyclist / car during the few minutes i was following him

gets to a big junction on kingsland road, hops on to path at speed, near miss with woman and pram, he turns around and laughs when she shrieks, hops back on to road, gets in the way of me, crosses red light having to go on the other side of the road causing a car to beep at him.

how is this guy still alive!?

Ride the wrong way down a busy one-way street with no bike lane with a 2-year-old in a back seat when there's a street with a bike lane going the correct way one block over.

jeez!

there are a lot of parents with back seat babies round here. scares this shit out of me tbh.

riding to work in the rain this morning in swimming shorts and a vest was pretty moronic. also FUN!

so my huge group ride rolls up the canyon while i hang back with a newby friend who i invited to join us. the group is supposed to proceed to a small town, really a collection of ramshackle hippy shacks/shops in the canyon where chicks sell free-range wheatgrass on the sidewalk. there, we are to refill water and then head back to town.

well, my friend and i get there about 15 mins after everyone else. the others, 15 riders or so, are collected on the side of the road, are beginning to head back down the canyon. but there is an altercation with a guy in a 30 y/o rusty truck. This two days after a cyclist was run over and killed on this road about 5 miles away, so there's def tension. another friend of mine is next to the driver, saying something like "buddy, just keep rollin up the road, just get out of here, we weren't doing anything wrong at all." truck guy is all "you goddamn riders are in the road, i can't get by, if you want trouble you'll get it, etc." trucker then pulls forward 20 feet, thereby placing me between him and the group (i had been trying to get out of the way). he gets out and starts snapping pictures. despite having no fucking clue what had happened/was happening, i will be the "face" of this shit in the pics. i'm now the closest to the truck, maybe 15 feet away, between him and the whole scrum of riders, who are maybe another 15 yards away now. and i'm in kit from the restaurant that sponsors the ride. now a couple guys 30 yards away from us are cussing/flipping off truck guy emphatically while he takes pictures. then of course, some fucktard starts mooning truck guy from the middle of the street while he takes pictures. i'm incredulous.

the group leaves, my newby friend stays with me. i need to use the bathroom in the restaurant, so i am now hanging out with angry truck guy as he berates the patrons and staff of the joint about the cyclists. i literally have to brush by him him to accomplish my mission, while he rants. i just say "pardon me" and shrug as i go through. good times y'all.

Today I saw THE hottest girl riding a fixie, no helmet with headphones and a grocery bag in one hand. Super trafficy street. She tried to track stand at the light and fell over. I lolled.