should i give the grateful dead a chance?

The thing is, I love the IDEA of the Dead - the endless noodling jams, those moments of improvisation when they reach the mythical 'zone', the community of fans, all those bootlegs to tick off and collect, the Verlaine-esque sound of Garcia's gtr, the vast quantities of drugs etc etc.

But - their recs just never seem to live up to the rep - before I ever listened to them, I imagined they were like the most mega-cosmic freak out group of all time, but when I finally did spin a few of their albs all I got was wimpy country-lite w/ really terrible singing. They rarely seem to rock out in any meaningful way, their cover versions are just AWFUL (esp. the 'bluesy' Pigpen-led stuff) and Hunter's lyrics are hippy bilge.

Without wishing to sound too alt snooty, Ghost and esp. Acid Mothers Temple do the whole folk-psych rock jam thing w/ so much more passion, imagination and freaky fun.

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

I knew when I saw this thread appear it would be full of the usual "the Dead are the worst band ever" stuff... they seem to be one of a small handful of bands it's ok to heap your worst insults on around here. So I'll do my usual and say yes "American Beauty" and "Workingman's Dead" are full of concise, well-written pop songs, their mid 70's LPs on their own label are amazing ("Blues for Allah" is my pick), and as great a guitarist as Tom Verlaine is, Garcia is better. He's a better vocalist, too. I know that for whatever reason the Dead are a band many people will just never permit themselves to like, so I expect to make no converts.

I think SY owe a lot to the dead in the way that they'd start a song and then they would use that as a basis for a jam and get back to the song.

The singing isn't to everyone's tastes but at a time when ppl are listening to Thom Yorke that isn't such a big problem.

For myself, they don't trouble my interest, and I can't say they will be anytime soon.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

Nope, and although I'm sure he's, uh, "funkier" than his brother, I can't imagine his jams with the Dead approach the instrumental break of "Can You Hear Me Knocking" (which was, after all, used by many a black "urban" radio station in the 1970s as promo music). Anyway, the point was that the claim that "Can You Hear Me Knocking" sounds like the Dead is way, way off-base.

''I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out- take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.''

it's bollocks! any band will have it's fans and haters but to dismiss it as 'chemical imbalance' is bullshit. Plus the 'annihalate' line (see dave q's ans).

Personally, the only song of theirs that I can instantly recognize is "Touch Of Grey". I'm fine with that.

If you're still hell bent on checking out the Dead, I'd start with any of the Dick's Picks live releases from 1972 or earlier. Even then, listening to them are like trying to dig for gold in a mine that's been completely played out. There's a lot of shovelling involved for very little payoff.

How is the Grateful Dead any different?

There must just be a neurotransmitter that makes people like SHIT, that is the explanation.

i so hope this is the guy i had a crush on at school

and how did you carry out yr study? was the sample large enough?

but seriously: yes I agree that by taking drugs you alter experiences to music. But i have never taken drugs and yet i enjoy the dead's music.

Anyway, which drug would make you like the dead? or is it a combination? Can you try it kate and give me some 'feedback'.

TBH I don't know which mix I have! I've a (probably 1980s) UK vinyl edition and a 2001 CD version from the Golden Road boxset. I must read the notes to the latter again.

^^Those are probably both the Remix (the 2001 CD definitely is).

Wiki:

Second-guessing the end results, Garcia and Lesh went back in the studio in 1971 to remix the album, removing many parts present on the original release, including a choir singing on "Mountains of the Moon", many difficult-to-identify sounds on "What's Become of the Baby", and an a cappella ending for "Doin' that Rag," dropped for an earlier fadeout. The remix also uses different vocal takes on some songs, most noticeably "Dupree's Diamond Blues." The result, with the same catalog number (WS1790) and perhaps brighter sound, but with much of the original's experimental character removed, can be identified by the "Remixed September, 1971" legend on the back cover. Mistakenly, the song timings on the first (1987) CD release refer to the original mix, not the remix (varying most significantly on "Doin' that Rag," which was edited from 5:15 to 4:41, and "China Cat Sunflower," edited from 4:15 to 3:40).

The original mix was later planned for CD release, but the original master tapes could not be located. When the masters were finally found, years later, they were used for The Warner Bros. Studio Albums vinyl box set, marking the first time the 1969 mix has been available since the 1971 remix replaced it, in 1972. The 2013 high definition remastering for download uses the remixed version – even though promotion related to this release declared "produced from the original analog master tapes in 2013, using the original album mixes".

An edit of the track "Doin' that Rag" was released on the Warner/Reprise Loss Leaders compilation The 1969 Warner/Reprise Record Show. Since this set stayed in print through the late 1970s, it provided a sample of the original mix for some years after the full album was only available in the remixed version.

---

On June 7, 2019 Rhino Records released the "50th Anniversary Deluxe Edition" of Aoxomoxoa. Disc one contains both mixes of the album – the one from 1969 and the one from 1971. Disc two contains previously unreleased live tracks from the Avalon Ballroom in San Francisco, recorded on January 24–26, 1969.

Yes. Going by the outro to Doin' That Rag, it seems both my versions are the 71 remix. So I've never heard the 69 mix. I must rectify that.

interesting that the Warner/Reprise record show was in print for so long, for just a promo sampler comp

the original mix is definitely worth hearing, but I hardly ever listen to it.

a very strange Aoxo outtake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg10Puy1kYo

'Doin that Rag' is such a shambles...like they're still learning it and lurch into the different parts

also has some rare Jerry falsetto

still surprises me when i remember members of the Dead put in session work for David Crosby's "If I Could Only Remember My Name." That pedal steel work Jerry puts in for "Laughing" is fantastic. "What Are Their Names" is such a wild tune to come out of a Crosby, Neil Young and the Dead composition.

this is what i'm talking about when i talk about how much i love the one drummer approach. i much prefer it. so good! well, they had the right one drummer for it. that helps. i mean i get that the mickey/bill combo is part of the mythos...and before 1972 i feel like i enjoy it more? i dunno. anyway, this is a really good show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtsB3lgvN5w

how many 60s and 70s bands wish that they had ONE show with the sound quality of that one above that they could listen to now. kinda crazy really.

(that set is really down-home. nothing out or crazy long. old-fashioned.)

many difficult-to-identify sounds on "What's Become of the Baby"

all-time wiki writing tbh

The uncontroversial part of my take is that I agree with Scott, one drummer Dead before the hiatus in '75 was peak Dead. Kreutzmann was a better drummer and allowed the Dead to turn on a dime in the jazzier years.

The somewhat controversial part of my take is that the Dead would have been a far less interesting band in the '80s and '90s without Mickey back in the fold. Mickey was a worse drummer, but I think he was often the main one still pulling the psychedelic thread in the later years. "Drums > Space" was not everyone's cup of tea, but in those later years it was sometimes the only moment in the show where they dipped a toe in those cosmic waters.

i do agree with all that. having said that, i don't listen to 80s and 90s Dead much unless someone tells me its a truly great show.

dual drummer arrangement in the 70s lost all the ferocity they had in the late 60s. bludgeoning is not a word i'd often use for the dead but some of those 'other ones' are gnarly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE66xE2bk5M

however, most all drum 'solos' or features or whatever, first nine minutes of this included, are dire

again, without a net, ffs

that's what happens when you try to play triplets with four hands

this is what i'm talking about when i talk about how much i love the one drummer approach. i much prefer it. so good! well, they had the right one drummer for it. that helps. i mean i get that the mickey/bill combo is part of the mythos...and before 1972 i feel like i enjoy it more? i dunno. anyway, this is a really good show.

Europe 72 is among my favorite dead, and I also never felt like Mickey added much tbh. I mean sometimes he does, but a lot of my favorite stuff is one drummer.

there are euro 1972 shows where BK gives krautrock drummers a run for their money!

yes! The dude was a machine. I also sometimes think of krautrock when I hear those shows.

Riiight. Nothing evidences precision motorik quite like a double Bill / Mickey fill

no we are talking just bill. in europe. in 1972.

do keep up

Jon otm. Billy was better but Mickey preserved a lot of the psychedelic mysticism that defined them from the start. The freakin' beam is still a fixture of dead & co drums into space and it's still a bone rattling thrill to hear it live. Also, the best studio recording of playing in the band was on Mickey's solo album Rolling Thunder, horns and all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE7-2Qo9FTc

Listened to the Truckin'>Mind Left Body Jam>Spanish Jam>Wharf Rat on 07/31/74 during a night drive through the country. It's pretty sweet.

anyone know of any other good instances where they go hard, like the end of sunshine daydream's (1972-08-27) dark star?

early "The Other Ones" are the first one that comes to mind. can't name a particular show, unfortunately. i just know they could get pretty gnarly before Weir's vocals hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Sx0Li9gQs

I would like to apologize in this public forum to Michael Steven Hartman, aka Mickey Hart, for anything I might have said to disparage his involvement with the GD. I stayed up until 2 AM last night watching the closing of Winterland video and him and Bill are having so much fun together and Mickey is just bashing away like a kid and they sound really cool and the band sounds awesome and Donna's vibe is awesome and I just love hearing them like that and it reminded me of how great they could sound when they all play together in sync. or in Dead sync anyway. and i love that opening 1-2-3 punch of sugar magnolia/scarlet begonias/fire on the mountain and i love that not fade away with john cipollina. Sorry, Mickey!

I’ve written about my love for Dozin’ at the Knick, it was my gateway Dead record. I went to see a local band cover the whole show last night and had so much fun. “Terrapin” delivered all the spacy funky prog goodness.

someone brought stuff in to trade including cd sets of 12/10/71 fox theatre and june 10 1973 rfk stadium. that is my era. well, i do love the 60s dead too. gonna take them home. feel like 1970 to 1973 dead was the best american folk rock band in the land.

i've never read about the dead's impact around the world. who loved them? where did they hit big with people? were they beloved in japan? south america? they never went to those places. did the krautrockers listen to them? there should be a book about that. maybe there is one.

I think that 6/10/73 show is the longest ever and has part of the Allman Bros sitting in for the third set. It's a fun show.

yah i think its 4 discs.

It's 8LPs(!) because they try to avoid splitting the songs.

jam much?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtJ8FIWx8og

i can't remember if i already posted this here. if i did its worth posting twice. so cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H-CW12fBNA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8oV1mUEWlk

#onethread