― o. nate, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― duane, Friday, 22 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
or "Student Studies" aka "The Great Paris Concert" (so called on Black Lion), with a bonus Sam Rivers -- or "Conquistador" on Blue Note, really seductive, its "Unit Structures" less complex but sexy sibling
mid: the two New World Records recordings capture that "..swift" band in the studio before they had toured Europe. Since "..swift" is the last gig for the band that included Jacson, you'll have ideas developed from one extreme to the other by the same band within a year long period, a rare oppurtunity to see how CT material develops over the course of a bands run -- usually his recordings are one-off appearances for each line-up
the Leo albums are the least useful of his albums (except for seeing what Leroy Jenkins does)
a good orchestrated by CT is "Sliding Quadrants" on Soul Note -- a useful entry to smaller scaled compositions and a great band quite different to the Jackson stuff
remember the Jackson stuff is most atypical -- no other CT drummer took anything like that approach, so "..swift" is quite an odd-ball, but very good admittedly
later: Oxley/Taylor is my favourite FMP, and Double Holy House is as cruisy as Taylor will get solo but all the FMPs are good.
the double "Alms/ .." ia a bit obvious, but fun. Olu Iwa with Brotzman is also definitely fun as are the FMP trios and 4tets/6tets with Oxley, Parker, Guy and the Honsinger, Gayle et. al.
get them all, then you have a lifetime of speed of sound ploughing to look forward to
― George Gosset, Sunday, 24 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― bob snoom, Thursday, 28 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Allison Vega, Thursday, 19 September 2002 05:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
Trolls really should learn to be consistent. Or better still, fuck off.
― Alison Houston, Thursday, 19 September 2002 06:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 19 September 2002 08:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
WHAT SHE SHOULD HAVE DONE OF COURSE was to berate you for being ABLE to string one sentence together in colourful, vowel-free purlieus, bleeding with camouflage-annihilating oxsyteryxie oxleyTtime howdoesitPHeAL aware of cecily's ergoGnomics unreachBBBBBLE for ham method acKToER like archie shepp har har :-)
― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 19 September 2002 08:56 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 19 September 2002 09:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bob snoom, Sunday, 22 September 2002 15:57 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bob zemko (bob), Thursday, 26 September 2002 00:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 26 September 2002 09:24 (twenty-one years ago) link
! i love this !
if i want it bad enough then i'll find the munny. (i'd love to mug someone so i could buy a cecil box set!!) but it seems way overpriced to me, and the prob (or is it?) with cecil is that it's had to get a review where i don't think that it's reflex "well everything he does is genius" one. i know he's a genius godammit!
am i broke? hmm. I've known broke-r supermarket-job student underachievers than me, so i guess i won't complain.
what sound-art box was this then?
― bob zemko (bob), Thursday, 26 September 2002 13:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
''Henri Chopin's Revue OU: 5 x LPs of sound art from the likes of W. Burroughs, byron gysin, bob cobbing (there's abt 20 artists in total). Beautiful picture discs. If you have 65 quid then go and get this becuz its only a limited edition of 300 and it'll prob run out in a month.the alternative is a 4 CD box set (material on 5 Lps) with a booklet (this didn't come with the LPs).
On the other hand there is a Henri chopin LP (an extra) with the 5. That doesn't come with the CDs.
I chose more music instaed of more info.''
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 26 September 2002 13:39 (twenty-one years ago) link
''"hehehe.. i wish i had the money (well, i do)"! i love this !''
well. that's the situation I'm in. I'd be happy to buy a 5 disc set (50 quid say) but since that isn't avaialble.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 26 September 2002 13:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
the promoters should tell us _now_ whether they're going to do what FMP did and issue them all as singles later anyway -- i figure the artists are above this game show retail business, so hopefully we'll find out the label are as like minded real soon
the i.t. boom, the cd boom, so many improv/azz releases in the last 8 years, have all been a little off-putting -- as were the FMP trio singles like ".. blazons"
― george gosset (gegoss), Saturday, 28 September 2002 07:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 28 September 2002 10:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 10 March 2003 10:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― zemko (bob), Monday, 10 March 2003 12:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
i wish there were more CT holy house and totzil/mummers spoken-music albums (and less w.s.burroughs albums)
anyone able to justify 100 quid for the ten album ct/oxley/parker dates ?? (limited edition -- screw that, i've seen 4 or 5 limited editions of the hat/hut items now, except garden, which is deserving too) -- i don't find w.parker very interesting on celebrated/looking fmps
(oh, and i think one too many salty swift pt 2 (5 on disc one) is the best learning curve entry point for ct units)
― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 10 March 2003 12:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
I have to admit I don't love Cecil Taylor. In theory I do, he's an incredible technician. As far as what he plays, though, I think there are moments of brilliance, but it seems very European to me...no space...I have no idea what you'd call it.
He's one of those people I need to check out more thoroughly, like Braxton, so the above suggestions are very useful. Anyone care to offer an analysis of what he does that might help me appreciate it more, I'm sure I must be missing some key here...
― Jess Hill (jesshill), Monday, 10 March 2003 17:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 10 March 2003 17:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
well what he does has no central key heh...atonal jazz me thinks. for more: go to val vilmer's book on the subject (not too technical but it has a bit of it for sure).
fer chrissakes! he's european!!! come on...he's european and american and african etc etc...its a world music project in his hands.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 10 March 2003 17:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 10 March 2003 20:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 10 March 2003 20:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mcd (mcd), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― mcd (mcd), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:15 (nineteen years ago) link
x-post: sirone=> http://www.mindspring.com/~scala/sirone.htm
I really like 'artistry'.
Don't have all the FMPs but I'd say you should get one without a percussionist next. The one with parker and hosinger was really satisfying.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link
Wow, stence, that is very exciting. I will be there.
― mcd (mcd), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link
I own the 2 Ts For A Lovely T box. It's probably overpriced (especially when exchange rates - which were a lot better when I purchased it than they are now - and shipping to the US are factored in), but I've listened to it a lot, so I feel like I got my money's worth.
― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 30 July 2004 13:55 (nineteen years ago) link
Did Cecil come out in his pajamas and bless the piano before he started playing? He did something like that both times I've seen him.
― o. nate (onate), Friday, 30 July 2004 14:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Joseph Pot (STINKOR™), Friday, 30 July 2004 14:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 30 July 2004 14:14 (nineteen years ago) link
Yeah what was he writing?
― mcd (mcd), Friday, 30 July 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.sofamusic.no/musicians/tony_oxley.jpg
I thought the bassplayer would've been much better with a real standup. Even during his arco parts there didn't seem to be as many overtones as would be produced with a larger resonating body (altho some of the arco stuff kinda nicely sounded like the late Jimmy Lyons' sax stuff!).
Dunno what he was writing. I was hoping he'd recite a poem but no dice.
― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 30 July 2004 14:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― mcd (mcd), Friday, 30 July 2004 14:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Friday, 30 July 2004 15:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Friday, 30 July 2004 15:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 30 July 2004 15:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― mcd (mcd), Friday, 6 August 2004 16:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 6 August 2004 16:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― mcd (mcd), Friday, 6 August 2004 16:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― ctbo, Friday, 6 August 2004 20:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 7 August 2004 15:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 04:08 (nineteen years ago) link
Lately I've been listening to Student Studies a lot.
― pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link
what release are you talking about?
― budo jeru, Monday, 24 July 2023 16:50 (eight months ago) link
Might have to troll the dark web
― Gerard Grisey Funk (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 24 July 2023 16:52 (eight months ago) link
― Gerard Grisey Funk (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 24 July 2023 16:53 (eight months ago) link
Sadly, I think this is where things are heading..
Ten years from now you’ll go to watch a movie at one of the few movie theaters left for like $100 a ticket
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 24 July 2023 16:58 (eight months ago) link
xp yeah okay i'm scratching my head here thinking ... who tf is rob young lol
― budo jeru, Monday, 24 July 2023 17:23 (eight months ago) link
actually, i'm still confused. what is the new taylor/dixon release?
― budo jeru, Monday, 24 July 2023 17:25 (eight months ago) link
OK, to clarify: Triple Point Records is a label run by Ben Young, longtime WKCR employee (no longer there, I don't think) and author of the "bio-discography" book Dixonia (a very valuable resource if you're super into Bill Dixon and his role in the 1960s NYC out jazz scene in particular).
Duets 1992 is a double LP of studio duos between Cecil Taylor and Bill Dixon, recorded in France in 1992 and never released at the time. It came out on Triple Point in 2019 after much delay (I saw the cover art at the Whitney exhibition dedicated to Taylor in 2016) and sells for $95 plus shipping. Vinyl only, no digital (you don't even get a download with your purchase). The music is amazing and deserves to be much more widely available, but whatcha gonna do.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2023 17:33 (eight months ago) link
OK, i knew all those things but to be clear the post was referring to a "new" release put out by somebody named rob young so pardon my confusion
― budo jeru, Monday, 24 July 2023 18:16 (eight months ago) link
i appreciate the breakdown though, since folks may follow the thread and not know and i don't want the free jazz threads here to be cryptic or insular
― budo jeru, Monday, 24 July 2023 18:17 (eight months ago) link
My feeling exactly. And to be clear, the reason this discussion cropped up is because I wrote in my Substack newsletter about a Cecil/Bill concert that I spotted on YouTube this weekend, which was the day before the studio recording session. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVc3qMW1fSY
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2023 18:31 (eight months ago) link
There’s pro-shot video of both that and their performance in Verona.I probably posted this before, and it’s mentioned in the liner notes of the Triple Point set, but the original plan in 1992 was for a 2CD box (Bill and Cecil preferred CDs to vinyl) with a book of Bill’s artwork and Cecil’s poetry. Unsurprisingly, no label wanted to release it at the time, at least not on the artists’ terms. It would’ve been incredible if the eventual release was what was originally intended, with the addition of a DVD of the filmed performances, and maybe contemporary reviews of those shows (Bill and Cecil were on the cover of France’s Jazz Hot that summer, and that photo was used in the artwork unperson saw at the Whitney).As irritatingly cumbersome, pricey, and gatekeepy as the Triple Point set is, at least it has the full backing and approval of the artists’ estates, and that the direct representatives of those estates are being compensated fairly.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 24 July 2023 19:04 (eight months ago) link
my only musical controp is that Love For Sale is one of his best albums
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Monday, 19 February 2024 23:10 (one month ago) link
not controversial in my household
― budo jeru, Monday, 19 February 2024 23:10 (one month ago) link
I'll try and make it more controp by stating it his best then! Been reading the Thelonious Monk book and was amused that Cecil was initially barred from the Five Spot for breaking an already fragile and dilapidated piano. I love this guy so much.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Monday, 19 February 2024 23:22 (one month ago) link
RDG Kelley's book? i still need to read it, sadly
― budo jeru, Monday, 19 February 2024 23:23 (one month ago) link
yeah, it's a tremendous read. I'm taking it slowly and listening to stuff referenced in it. It has taught me a few things and is so good.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Monday, 19 February 2024 23:27 (one month ago) link
Thought this revive would be for unperson's Cecil Taylor book, when's that out?
― Jordan s/t (Jordan), Monday, 19 February 2024 23:28 (one month ago) link
Not sure yet. Publisher's working on it. I just sent them back cover copy and an author photo today, in fact! I've seen a preliminary page layout, and I know they're talking to the folks at FMP and the Jazzinstitut Darmstadt about including some photos. They're also designing the cover using a painting I sent them. It'll definitely be out this year, though.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 00:03 (one month ago) link
Ooooh
― ian, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 00:38 (one month ago) link
I’ve been bumping “calling it the eighth” lately.
― ian, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 00:40 (one month ago) link
i don't think Love is for Sale is my favorite album of his but it's *definitely* my favorite of his album covers
― O Fundo Escuro de (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:45 (one month ago) link
Recently spent a day at the Met museum with my headphones on, selecting music to pair with each group of painting and I chose Air Above Mountains for the Cezannes. Pretty clear resonance imo with their interest in 'underlying architecture' and constructing forms out of individual units. Wondering if Cecil Taylor has ever spoken about any direct influence from visual art or architecture
― O Fundo Escuro de (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:50 (one month ago) link
Wondering if Cecil Taylor has ever spoken about any direct influence from visual art or architecture
Yeah, he was a huge admirer of architect Santiago Calatrava's bridges and other structures; he talked about it many times.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:55 (one month ago) link
He was a big art and architecture lover. Dantiago Calatrava gets a shoutout early on in the documentary “All The Notes”.
― completely suited to the horny decadence (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:56 (one month ago) link
lol unperson beat me to it!
Nice, i should check out that doc.
If there's a print interview online where he talks about it that you know of please lmk!
― O Fundo Escuro de (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:59 (one month ago) link
I didn't know that, but it actually makes a lot of sense.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 21:00 (one month ago) link
freely available on youtubeit's the opening shot lol
― O Fundo Escuro de (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 22:01 (one month ago) link
you can check this out if you're looking for a print source rather than video:
http://www.furious.com/perfect/ceciltaylor.html
― budo jeru, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 22:39 (one month ago) link
both Miles and Cecil were poshboys compared to Monk who was an autodidact born into struggle and struggled even when he was famous, and there is a fair bit of needle between Monk and Miles. Probably not all down to class resentment but more pride and the clashing out of control egos. But no surprise that Cecil was an urbane intellectual type, given his background. Not that it made life any easier being black in the US at the time.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 23:07 (one month ago) link
But no surprise that Cecil was an urbane intellectual type, given his background. Not that it made life any easier being black in the US at the time.
Yeah, I deal with this a little bit in the book, the fact (often unremarked-upon by critics) that Taylor was absolutely a scion of the early 20th century Black upper middle class, if not the Black aristocracy of the era; he says in an interview I quoted that his father had the only brick house on their block, and his (Cecil's) name appeared in the society columns of local newspapers when he was a kid — the family seems to have come through the Great Depression entirely unscathed, and some relatives on his father's side lived in a gigantic manor house near Boston (part of the reason he wound up at New England Conservatory, I think).
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 23:15 (one month ago) link
I just realized despite the fact I love him so much I have no idea about Taylor’s background. Looking forward to the book, etc.
― B. Amato (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 21 February 2024 00:32 (one month ago) link
most of what i know is from the A.B. Spellman book, which i highly recommend!
https://press.umich.edu/Books/F/Four-Jazz-Lives2
― budo jeru, Wednesday, 21 February 2024 03:49 (one month ago) link
thanks budo jeru! i think his intro in the doc was more interesting, if only because he took me by surprise when he referred to bridges as a time-based form
― O Fundo Escuro de (Deflatormouse), Wednesday, 21 February 2024 17:02 (one month ago) link
stumbled onto this a while ago and most of what i know about him is from here:https://unitstructures.commons.gc.cuny.edu/abstracts/
― O Fundo Escuro de (Deflatormouse), Wednesday, 21 February 2024 17:21 (one month ago) link
no problem. i don't get asked every day if i can recommend a print source for Cecil Taylor's thoughts on Calatrava, but when it does happen i'm ready
― budo jeru, Wednesday, 21 February 2024 18:34 (one month ago) link
haha, does the Institute of Jazz Studies need a reference librarian?
― O Fundo Escuro de (Deflatormouse), Wednesday, 21 February 2024 20:49 (one month ago) link
Yeah, thanks for that link budo jeru.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 21 February 2024 20:50 (one month ago) link
of tangential interest: this blog posted an audio recording of an interview with chantal d'arcy from 1963, who started Shandar records in Paris in the early '70s with encouragement from CT, and also issued recordings by Taylor, as well as Sun Ra, Terry Riley, Pran Nath, and others:
https://blogthehum.com/2017/04/02/a-rare-wonderful-and-insightful-interview-with-chantal-darcy-founder-of-shandar-records-from-may-23-1973/
― budo jeru, Sunday, 25 February 2024 05:20 (one month ago) link