― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:36 (seventeen years ago) link
Yes, and I still don't understand it.
Maybe because C81 showed style and diversity, whereas C86, by suggesting a hivemind, attracted a lot of bees.
or something.
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:45 (seventeen years ago) link
I think also everybody agreed that C81 was a Good Thing - it's very rare for people to say "Stylistic diversity! Less of that please!" - whereas C86 was still talked about because it attracted real controversy, tying into (as I understand it) The Hip-Hop Wars etc.
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― Venga (Venga), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:50 (seventeen years ago) link
Now any jazz douchebags want to talk about NME 013?
― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:53 (seventeen years ago) link
All true. I spent 1986 exchanging mixtapes and twee badges with my penfriend and drinking a lot of milkshakes. I was listening to Hip Hop and House too, but I was totally part of that shambling scene. (which was the last time I ever felt like part of a subcult.)
― I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:54 (seventeen years ago) link
"Do it the hard wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...."
I loved that tape, but felt no need to buy any more jazz. So it goes, sometines.
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:56 (seventeen years ago) link
I think I did this kind of thing with pretty much all those NME tapes. Has anyone got a list of them?
― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:20 (seventeen years ago) link
on a tangential topic relating to dee's comment: i don't think those black or ethnic influences had evaporated at this point, they were just suppressed or redirected for the most part. but there's the example of the Dog Faced Hermans, who were influenced by the Ron Jonson/Big Flame axis heavily at first then reconstituted those ethnic influences in very interesting way.
And the Wedding Present had very overt ethnic influences at first--mostly from guitarist Pete Solowka, who was mainly responsible for their "Ukrainian sessions" in the late 80's and played on all the good WP records.
― naturemorte (naturemorte), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:23 (seventeen years ago) link
There was a really good web page with all the NME cassette details on, but I can't find it.
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― naturemorte (naturemorte), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:25 (seventeen years ago) link
Links/info on this one.
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:25 (seventeen years ago) link
That said, I've never owned a copy of the tape and think I only listened to it once.
― Jeff W (zebedee), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:40 (seventeen years ago) link
baby bird?
― Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:44 (seventeen years ago) link
xpost - naturemorte - it was the Cecil Taylor album he was really commenting on - it was a pretty leftfield Cecil Taylor album and one which I didn't play again for about 10 years. Now, of course, up against, say, Merzbow, sounds a bit tame. Although not as tame as C86...
― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:48 (seventeen years ago) link
This weren't on C86, but maybe it shoulda been:Wolfhounds - Anti-Midas Touch
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:50 (seventeen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:04 (seventeen years ago) link
(Was that 'eastern bloc'? Something tells me no.)
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:15 (seventeen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:16 (seventeen years ago) link
I haven't looked at dissensus in a couple of months, TBH. Am I missing owt?
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:20 (seventeen years ago) link
Ha ha Marcello - no, I think that was later, and what a joy that is...
I've searched high and low for a list of NME cassettes...if anyone comes across one can they post the link here?
There was a hardware store in Afflecks Palace?
― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Bidfurd (Bidfurd), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:28 (seventeen years ago) link
the Miaow and Lemon Drops tracks are also personal favourites. the Mighty Mighty track hasn't aged well, makes them sound like dirty old men.
c81 listing: NME/Rough Trade C81 (the irony)c86 listing: http://www.twee.net/misc/release.htm?key=nmec86c96 listing: http://www.gracenote.com/music/album.html/genblues/b8c3d30f2e0e0ec8d2c19bc0db04c1ed.html
― koogy wonderland (koogs), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:33 (seventeen years ago) link
well this was the implication in my crappy post way up there - as most folks of my ongoing constant plugging to get AOC back on the racks via a reissue campaign (ageofchance.com) - or so i thought.
but yes in case i was being too subtle - the AOC track fucking rules it.
― mark e (mark e), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:40 (seventeen years ago) link
Also I think C86 is the only place you can get that version of Breaking Lines - the version on Truck Train Tractor 12" is different.
― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― Venga (Venga), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 11:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Twitchety Twitch Manic Toy System (Bimble...), Saturday, 27 May 2006 07:34 (seventeen years ago) link
sanctuary are to release a 2 cd set to coincide with the 20th annivversary.
the cd86 comp will be released in oct (track lsiting below) primal scream - velocity girl the servants - the sun a small star hurrah - around and around the loft - why does the rain east village - vibrato the sea urchins - pristine christine the siddeleys - what went wrong this time another sunny day - anorak city the clouds - get out of my dream the boy hairdressers - golden shower the chesterfields - ask johnny dee the raw herbs - he's blown in laugh - paul mccartney the hit parade - you didn't love me then the weather prophets - like frankie lymon the june brides - sunday to saturday the dentists - i had an excellent dream mighty mighty - everybodys knows the monkey bmx bandits - e102 talulah gosh - talulah gosh the jasmine minks - cut me deep razorcuts - i'll still be there the bodines - therese tv personalities - paradise estate
disc two
the jesus and mary chain - upside down primitives - really stupid the groove farm - it always rains on sunday pop will eat itself - black country chainsaw massacre 14 iced bears - come get me fizzbombs - sign on the line the wolfhounds - anti midas touch the wedding present - this boy can wait age of chance - bible of the beats shop assistants - safety net close lobsters - just too bloody stupid half man half biscuit - dukla prague away kit meat whiplash - don't slip up the flatmates - i could be in heaven the darling buds - if i said this poison - poised over the pause button the bachelor pad - jack and julian the pooh sticks - on tape the revolving paint dream - flowers are in the sky the soup dragons - whole wide world mccarthy - frans hals the mighty lemon drops - like an angel big flame - why popstars can't dance the pastels - baby honey
― mark e (mark e), Monday, 4 September 2006 14:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 14:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Monday, 4 September 2006 14:46 (seventeen years ago) link
(this is not a complaint)
― Koogy Yonderboy (koogs), Monday, 4 September 2006 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link
...7 weeks a year.
― everything, Friday, 24 August 2007 16:37 (sixteen years ago) link
that's why i say don't fuck with ron johnson.
― andi, Saturday, 25 August 2007 07:39 (sixteen years ago) link
28 years...
http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19423-c86/
mine arrived today. someone really needs to add the 72 titles / bandnames into cddb.
― koogs, Wednesday, 11 June 2014 17:20 (nine years ago) link
"C87 imagines what the NME compilers might have chosen, had they revisited the idea one year later, choosing music from mid-1986 through 1987."
http://louderthanwar.com/cherry-red-announce-line-up-for-c87-box-set-c86-imagined-one-year-later/
could have sworn that in 87 the NME was covering a lot of hip hop ...
― mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 14:29 (eight years ago) link
a lot of those i have on those melody maker indie top 20 tapes, especially vol2 - http://www.bandplanet.co.uk/Oldsite/indietop20s.htm
― koogs, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 14:53 (eight years ago) link
OK, so it's Cherry Red so you don't expect much care but anyway, at first glance that is a pretty half-assed compilation. I mean yeah, it doesn't cover what the NME was going on about in '87 in any kind of comprehensive way. They literally never covered some of those bands EVER. One of them appeared on the cover and the editor got sacked. If it was a genuine attempt to do an NME thing from '87 then they'd need things like Trouble Funk, Colourfield, Def Jam, Salt'n'Pepa, That Petrol Emotion, Michel Shocked, Coldcut etc.
But let's put that aside and accept that "C86" has nothing to do with NME or even the C86 cassette anymore.
There was the CD86 from a year or two ago that more or less did the same thing. If this is supposed to supplement that by reviewing the situation from a year later, then they haven't put much thought into it. Some of them ("Poised Over The Pause Button", "Pristine Christine", "I Could Be in Heaven", "Franz Hals", "Ask Johnny Dee", "Golden Shower" others) already appeared on CD86. Others, eg. The Bachelor Pad song are b-sides of songs from CD86 so where is the supposed progression.
I don't have any problem with endless genre comps but c'mon, you have to find new tracks and preferably stuff that fits the concept of the comp.
― everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 21:51 (eight years ago) link
it doesn't cover what the NME was going on about in '87 in any kind of comprehensive way.
exactly my point.
as proven by :
http://www.nme.com/bestalbumsandtracksoftheyear/1987
in 1987 the nme was my fucking bible for music with beats and noise, and this compilation is the worst kind of revisionism.
― mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 22:09 (eight years ago) link
Revisionism is right. It's telling that they have picked more retro songs from bands that were moving from indie to beats that year. ie. "Sweet Sweet Pie" instead of something from "Box Frenzy", or "Young Till Yesterday" rather than "Christopher Mayhew Says". Even "Hang Ten!" (1986) rather than the more sophisticated "Head Gone Astray". Or the Mackenzies "New Breed" rather than the much more futuristic "Mealy Mouths" from the same year (1986 btw so fuck this concept we invented for the comp).
Fact is the likes of the Shamen or PWEI would have gone nowhere if they had continued doing indie/60s/punk influenced stuff and they had few fans till they switched that up. Everyone, especially the NME, knew that style was moribund.
You could pick holes in this all day.
― everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 22:31 (eight years ago) link
Still a great jam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37TO9Dmaoz0
― everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 22:42 (eight years ago) link
Jesus Christ Almighty, wtf?!?!?
By the way, re-reading this thread:
it was an artificial attempt to mimic the 1981 NME/Rough Trade cassette - which was borne out of a real movement
What movement were Robert Wyatt, Linx and Cabaret Voltaire (to name but three) a part of?
― Demeraray & Essequebo (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:00 (eight years ago) link
Don't agree with that post in any way but think it's refering to DIY cassette culture - the C81 cassette as a product, rather than it's contents?
― everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:12 (eight years ago) link
now, if they had included the baby amphetamine 12", then maybe, just maybe i would have been interested.
― mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:16 (eight years ago) link
nme vs 1987 summed up here :
http://www.creation-records.com/classic-interviews1-baby-amphetamine/
― mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:17 (eight years ago) link
Oh right, well in that case maybe the Door and the Window or 49 Americans (or whoever) should have taken preference over James Blood Ulmer. As far as I can see, the movement in question seemed to be the movement of artists involved with Rough Trade in some capacity or other.
― Demeraray & Essequebo (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:19 (eight years ago) link
haha-yeah. Particularly since Linx and the Specials were replaced by Panther Burns and TV Personalities in the reissue.
An interesting theory about C86 is that it was part of the "hip-hop wars" at the NME. A handful of their writers who mostly were into post-punk indie guitar stuff wanted to try to carve out a scene separate from where the general editorial direction of the paper. So that would have precluded Baby Amphetamine presumably.
― everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:23 (eight years ago) link
An interesting theory about C86 is that it was part of the "hip-hop wars" at the NME. A handful of their writers who mostly were into post-punk indie guitar stuff wanted to try to carve out a scene separate from where the general editorial direction of the paper.
i would suggest that this was the core of the hip hop wars.at the time, i was a young country boy with no access to NYC 12" records, but somehow, the nme made me excited and connected to the scene, and i loved their coverage of this new world.that and the electro/street sounds compilations.hence why this boxset is fucked up. if the compilers genuinely believe that this is the natural conclusion to c86.i mean, and yes, i have to do this, look at age of chance.in 86, they were clearly part of the c86 scene with their shambolic early releases.whereas by 87, they along with others, had moved on, and were making music that reflected the new era with record label stretching demands.but this boxset does little to reflect that change.(and yeah, the presence of a brilliantly bonkers GBOA track does not count !)
― mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:38 (eight years ago) link
yes, there's a few great, under-appreciated songs/bands on here: GBOA, Bachelor Pad, Great Leap Forward. There's also a lot of stuff that I'm fine with but totally over-compiled.We need a moritorium on any rerelease of "Ask Johnny Dee", "Get Out of My Dream", "Pristine Christine" and the like.
Then there's so much stuff that's just terrible LOL.
― everything, Thursday, 11 February 2016 00:21 (eight years ago) link
Feels like the idea that this stuff never went anywhere and doesn't matter has turned around since this thread was started. Not the Ron Jonson/Bogshed stuff but the indie/60s/punk hybrids. So many of the young local bands here talk about that stuff, and emulate the sound and aesthetics. The music is now accessible and festivals like indietracks and Popfest are giving the original bands motivation to reform.
There's dozens of undiscovered gems waiting to be compiled (plus lots of trash of course). I wish someone would do more crate digging and compiling from the 1984-1988 period.
― everything, Friday, 28 April 2017 19:18 (six years ago) link
Are you aware of the excellent Cherry Red box sets: C86 (3CD), C87 (3CD) and the forthcoming C88 (3CD)? Also, there's a 5 disc set called "Scared To Get Happy" which really digs deeply into this area.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 28 April 2017 19:20 (six years ago) link
Yes, I trashed them upthread LOL. No, I'm actually okay with them other than the repetition of bands and tracks. It's like if the Pretty Things and the Standells had to be included on every Nuggets/Pebbles etc compilation. No, they're on the first one and after that it's one-off releases by bands you've never heard of. The compilers compete to find tracks that haven't been comped. With this stuff it's as if there's only two CDs worth of good stuff and after that you have to move on to the post-Sarah Records era.
― everything, Friday, 28 April 2017 19:32 (six years ago) link
Also more digging into unreleased stuff by the well-known bands. With the difficulty of producing and releasing records back then there's tons of recordings that have never seen the light of day. I know there's mid-80s stuff from the prehistory of Teenage Fanclub, Vaselines, Bachelor Pad, etc or radio sessions and the like that aren't available.
― everything, Friday, 28 April 2017 19:44 (six years ago) link
Ah, good point, especially radio sessions. I imagine the legalities are an issue there, but looking at the "Keeping It Peel" site there's TONS of one-off band sessions that I'm sure have a killer cut contained within them.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 29 April 2017 03:58 (six years ago) link
New book on C86 coming out on 18th August, preceded by a Guardian interview with the author.
Reel lives: how I tracked down the class of NME’s C86 album
― Portsmouth Bubblejet, Monday, 8 August 2022 11:29 (one year ago) link
The book's a fun read. Cool to read retrospective article of the sort that Mojo etc do for more major artists but obviously would never touch 90% of this lot. He interviews at least one person, usually more, from each band. It's a bit like the tape - some chapters are stand-outs, some are forgettable. The more successful artists tend to be a bit boring while the ones who never went anywhere have their own story to tell. The Stump chapter is very good, Bogshed and Miaow also. I enjoyed the McCarthy, Close Lobsters & Wolfhounds chapters too, since these are the records that stand up nowadays in my opinion, plus the interviewees are interesting. If you have any interest in these bands you have to read this.
The Pastels chapter is a favourite, not because of Stephen Pastel, who's life has the appearance of being completely uneventful and static for three decades. It's because of their former drummer Berniece Simpson effortlessly skewering Pastel (who we find out fired the original band via a lawyer's letter) by having a very successful and happy non-musical career and family, and very pointedly defining her decade as an indie musician as a young person's game.
― everything, Monday, 23 January 2023 21:11 (one year ago) link
pricing an Eton Crop record from 1987 (Yes, Please Bob) and in their Discogs bio they call them a "pre-C86" band and lump them in with the Membranes and The Three Johns and it all makes sense i guess but i don't think i'd ever heard of a group of bands being called that. not exactly arbitrary. all people with the Mekons in their veins.
― scott seward, Friday, 11 August 2023 21:04 (seven months ago) link
mekons very much relevant to all three - langford played on a couple of membranes ablums and i think did the sleeve to the eton crop record
― NickB, Friday, 11 August 2023 21:39 (seven months ago) link
i think i want to like those kind of bands more than i do. they are missing that langford je nais se quois despite his input. but maybe i just haven't found the right one for me. i never play membranes records when i get them in.
― scott seward, Friday, 11 August 2023 21:41 (seven months ago) link
yeah i've never been totally into their stuff tbh. veeing off at a tangent but that eton crop album always make me think of this album by the welsh band fflaps (both covers reference the same long-running uk tv quiz show, blockbusters):https://www.discogs.com/release/2060127-Fflaps-Malltod
more of a dog-faced hermans vibe though and it totally rules:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghiTVUTlDvA
― NickB, Friday, 11 August 2023 21:46 (seven months ago) link
wow love that! that name is totally ringing a bell. totally get the DFH vibe too. i love DFH beyond reason.
― scott seward, Friday, 11 August 2023 21:57 (seven months ago) link
not really connected, but THIS is an album i really fell for and played 5 times in a row and i'd never heard it until this week! from 1980. where's it been all my life?? they just didn't make it over here. i only remember the later "I'm In Love With A German Film Star" single.
https://i.discogs.com/wxWgUbhbHJ7Ir7sPRPq-unlMBMR4grvkCaTEHw81KO8/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTU3MzIy/MC0xMzUyOTIwODc0/LTg1NDAuanBlZw.jpeg
― scott seward, Friday, 11 August 2023 22:03 (seven months ago) link
fantastic band whose records you can still buy for buttons pretty much. the album with 'german film star' is also great
― NickB, Friday, 11 August 2023 22:15 (seven months ago) link
yeah, i need the other LPs.
― scott seward, Friday, 11 August 2023 22:30 (seven months ago) link
'Oh No, It's You' is the standout for me. I think I bought this album for about a pound in the early 90s. Isn't Robert Smith on it on somewhere on backing vocals?
― Flowersdie, Wednesday, 16 August 2023 01:51 (seven months ago) link
boom, just pulled this out to price. there is your "pre-c86" in a nutshell, no?
https://i.discogs.com/ZeyoMktHl2CY6kPBnE4jZEJykj0gKYPQ7SvQz-JLVyg/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE3NDE3/MzItMTMwMzczNzM4/NS5qcGVn.jpeg
― scott seward, Thursday, 17 August 2023 14:51 (seven months ago) link
Love Fflaps!
Trying to get my head around this - so like post-punk or proto-indie/jangle pop? I love a ton of that stuff but sometimes the venn diagram circles are almost perfectly overlapping when trying to mentally categorize...
I've been deep diving a lot of 80s early indiepop kind of stuff, was jamming to The Dentists last night for instance.
― But his face would not turn into hot Kirby (Evan), Thursday, 17 August 2023 15:28 (seven months ago) link
xp underrated band on that comp - Rote Kapelle
― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 17 August 2023 20:16 (seven months ago) link
Did Fflaps have a female singer who was going out with Mark the singer from Dandelion Adventure. I think anyway since they were from Preston and Fflaps somewhere in Wales.Just remembering hitching tours in the late 80s and meeting them along the way.
― Stevo, Friday, 18 August 2023 01:44 (seven months ago) link
Was looking for clarification BTW
― But his face would not turn into hot Kirby (Evan), Friday, 18 August 2023 15:22 (seven months ago) link
They were part of the scene that included the Membranees and the bands John Robb writes about in Death To Trad Rock. The one track by them on Spotify is on the compilation cd that tied in with the book. Or at least one of the 2 instances of the same track is.So I think they were in the rockier side of indie and probably had direct roots to punk, though I think they may have been a bit late in the decade for the term post-punk which would possibly fit otherwise.Venn overlap between several different subgenres.
― Stevo, Saturday, 19 August 2023 08:26 (seven months ago) link