IDS and Howard were both cases of "someone has to do it"
Howard wasn't even trying to wih the election last time.
― Mark G, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Also, I don't believe for one second Cameron is just "an empty fucking vessel" - Labour were guilty of underestimating him for much of last year and it blew up in their faces.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Well, an independent Scotland will mean we'll be stuck with the tories for ever, so thanks but no thanks.
Not up to you, is it?
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 09:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Funnily enough, the T's generally don't like Cameron
But they don't care because they want power and think that once he's in he'll revert to the Right. Which he probably will.
Dude, people hate the party now, not just the leadership. Putting a pretty boy out front isn't going to make much difference
So, why stick with him?
Also, I don't believe for one second Cameron is just "an empty fucking vessel"
What are his policies then?
― Ned Trifle II, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:33 (fifteen years ago) link
He's got plenty of policies but he's not about to tell anyone about them, if he doesn't have to
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 09:34 (fifteen years ago) link
Labour have absolutely no chance of winning the 2010 election. The only strategy they could have employed would have been to call a June 2007 election - I have absolutely no idea why they did not do this
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:35 (fifteen years ago) link
I wondered how long it would be before Laxalt came along and told us what WE SHOULD HAVE DONE.
― Ned Trifle II, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:36 (fifteen years ago) link
Got a labour party membership card have we?
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:37 (fifteen years ago) link
'we'?
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:37 (fifteen years ago) link
Jol out.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:38 (fifteen years ago) link
OK now that laxalt has spoken I am confident Labour will win the next election
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 09:39 (fifteen years ago) link
They would have won in November 2007 as well.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:40 (fifteen years ago) link
November they would have won also yes. Wasn't consensus on here that he fluffed in not calling last autumn?
Tom D it is good you are feeling confident. Perhaps a trip to the bookies might be in order
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:43 (fifteen years ago) link
Any more tips?
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 09:43 (fifteen years ago) link
Look's bad but I don't think it's unsalvageable. Though a lot will depend on external factors, most importantly how the economy copes in the next couple of years. If they can sort out the Northern Rock problem before the next election that would be a major filip to their reputation.
The most important thing is that Brown should be seen to be doing something, the charges are that he's a ditherer and ducks the issues are corrosive. Elector's may forgive a government going through a bad patch, they won't forgive a leader who stands back and (is seen) to do nothing about it.
― Billy Dods, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:51 (fifteen years ago) link
summary of "honeymoon period/feelgood factor"
When you are ahead in the polls, things look nice.
But, call an election like NOW based on those figures, and the honeymoon/feelgood VANISHES!
This is why no-one's been dumb enough to try it.
So, what to do? Get Ant and Dec to take over as partyleader.
― Mark G, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:56 (fifteen years ago) link
Not be crap?
Yes, only if Labor could replace Brown with someone slightly less terrible but I wouldn't know where to find him or her.
Oh well, enjoy your future New Modern Tory nightmare everyone. Except for our viewers in Scotland.
― King Boy Pato, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:57 (fifteen years ago) link
Ant and Dec = tainted by corruption scandals
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 09:57 (fifteen years ago) link
At the moment I can't see the next labour leader being anything but a milliband and I can't see one winning much either.
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 09:58 (fifteen years ago) link
The problem is there is a growing awareness that the current economic problems -- which cannot be salvaged before a 2010 election (and are arguably being made worse by the actions of the last 6 months), are largely of Browns own making (yes other countries followed similar paths and are also in similar positions).
The spin is to put the blame for current economic situation on 'american subprime' which Brown raises constantly in order to deflect blame. His worst problem though is the fact that he is not good at covering this up, is not good at concealing it, he looks like a condemned man - and has done since day one. Public never tends to vote for politicians once they enter that phase
To be elected is not an impossibility I will admit - as Major showed in 92. Did Major have the same aura of incompetence though?
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:00 (fifteen years ago) link
(xp*2) OK, let them run for Mayor next time up then..
― Mark G, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:01 (fifteen years ago) link
-- Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:40 (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
In the middle of the Northern Rock crisis?
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:01 (fifteen years ago) link
Miliband: Is that supposed to be a mustache?
― King Boy Pato, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:02 (fifteen years ago) link
he looks like a condemned man - and has done since day one
No he didn't
Did Major have the same aura of incompetence though?
Are you kidding here?
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 10:02 (fifteen years ago) link
-- Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:58 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
You're forgetting the uber-popular and charming Ed Balls.
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Haha October then. I have no idea what would have happened if Northern Rock had occurred in the middle of an election campaign. Things never seem to kick off in election campaigns usually.
One or two senior government figures will suddenly start saying as little as possible in order to drop off the radar and avoid being tainted by this govt's last couple of years. Anyone heard anything from Jack Straw lately?
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:03 (fifteen years ago) link
One or two senior government figures will suddenly start saying as little as possible in order to drop off the radar and avoid being tainted by this govt's last couple of years.
-- Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 11:03 (52 seconds ago) Bookmark Link
I was thinking _exactly_ the same thing about Alan Johnson this morning. He should be next PM, he looks like he should have managed Man City in the 70s.
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:05 (fifteen years ago) link
He might still manage Man City
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 10:06 (fifteen years ago) link
SOME of the problems are of Brown's own making, and others aren't. The root of the problem is American subprime - without that the credit crunch wouldn't have occurred. The problem is that Brown has encouraged the conditions under which Britain is particularly vulnerable to a tightening of the credit market.
Before anyone says anything, I do not know what I would have done differently at the time, and I know that hindsight is a wonderful thing. This is why, happily, I am not Chancellor of the Exchequer.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:06 (fifteen years ago) link
Was last month they had a chance of winning. Though the non-economic bad news was coming thick and fast then (the hospital bug stuff and that harman business seem a long time ago now). public still believed northern rock was isolated incident and could be contained
About Major? No. Wasn't sure if his aura of incompetence was quite as bad as Browns or not - was genuine question
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:09 (fifteen years ago) link
This govt has a long long way to go before it reaches the aura of incompetence that Major achieved. Thing with Major is, the media knew he was a dead duck and sensing blood were pretty much relentless in their attack. The same thing could now happen to Brown, and Cameron's policies might not be put under the scrutiny they deserve.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:09 (fifteen years ago) link
The root of the problem is American subprime - without that the credit crunch wouldn't have occurred
Don't believe this to be true. It merely happened in america first.
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:10 (fifteen years ago) link
Am talking about Major 90-92 here though, the Major that managed to win an election!
This is the man to save Labour: John McDonnell
― djmartian, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:11 (fifteen years ago) link
Well, unless it happened in Britain first, it would still be outside Brown's jurisdiction?
(xpost - I'm so disappointed that didn't say 'Harry Redknapp')
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:11 (fifteen years ago) link
major's aura of incompetence began with black wednesday -- ie several months after april 1992 election, tom
wrt leader-changing: labour doesn't actually have the unite-the-two-wings problem that meant the tories had to go through three further self-evident duds to find an empty vessel -- however this is still a massive punt that doesn't address deeper problems within the party since its blair-is-all reshaping
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:12 (fifteen years ago) link
damage to brown's alleged deep prudent subtle grasp of economics = running the UK economy as if all was well in the world economy, and not keeping some trick in reserve for subprime problem even when it was but the size of a small child's fist far off on the otherwise blemishless horizon -- it's ture that next to no one (apart from a handful of ecnomo-bear cassandras) was saying VERY BAD STUFF AHEAD, so brown isn't alone for not knowing better, but all this means is he gets to wear an "as clueless as the rest of em" badge, which in this context is no help
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:16 (fifteen years ago) link
This is the man to save Labour: John Ramsay McDonnell
fixed
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:19 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm not sure how he managed to get the prudent tag in the first place given the huge increases in debt and the huge increases in money supply that occured during his tenure
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:23 (fifteen years ago) link
Urgently required: 1 Labour-saving device
― Tom D., Friday, 2 May 2008 10:23 (fifteen years ago) link
Ask Tony Blair if he wants his old job back.
― caek, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:26 (fifteen years ago) link
Brown was prudently counter cyclical for the first half of his tenure, then the wheels fell of that plan.
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:26 (fifteen years ago) link
-- Matt DC, Friday, May 2, 2008
seems to be 3rd favourite behind Cameron and Osbourne to be next PM
http://www.oddschecker.com/specials/politics-and-election/uk-cabinet-specials/next-prime-minister
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:26 (fifteen years ago) link
"huge increases in debt" <--- a. no one considered qualified to comment considered this a problem, b. it wasn't g.brown's personal debt it's all those chavs (<--- taxicab thinking not mine)
prudent = nothing much went pearshaped qualified to comment = economic and financial commentary in general is indicted by subprime (which is a a bit of a reflex marker anyway for colossal scale of debt in key western economies at all levels)
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:29 (fifteen years ago) link
The prudence tag came from a first term "hey look Britain we are not going to lavish money on everything in the first five minutes and then realise there's nothing in the cash register" and he got attacked by the left for sticking to Tory spending plans. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.
Also, Brown actually paid off a big chunk of national debt prior to the 2001 election which won the continued support of the Sun. Obviously he borrowed more since, but it's worth noting.
I worry about the cuts in spending that will arise from a Tory government plus failing economy. I suspect this is the nasty stuff Cameron is holding over until after the election.
― Matt DC, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:31 (fifteen years ago) link
well debt and money supply are the same thing anyway so the reiteration wasn't required. debt can be written off as personal problems I guess - but call it what it really is - money supply - and the fault comes back to the administration
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:31 (fifteen years ago) link
oh god i just realised: three phrases that will now never be off pundit lips
i: stalking horse ii: throw his/her hat in the ring iii: last chance fucking saloon
― mark s, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:32 (fifteen years ago) link
you forgot
GREEN SHOOTS OF RECOVERY
ad nauseum for next 5 years
― laxalt, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:32 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.mediastorehouse.com/image/STALKING-HORSE_602060.jpg?mediatype=2&mediaid=602060&fitfill=fit&pvw=676
― Ed, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:36 (fifteen years ago) link
iii: last chance fucking saloon
Not sure about this one. Unless it's Jeremy Vine: Live and Uncensored.
― Michael Jones, Friday, 2 May 2008 10:36 (fifteen years ago) link
I spent my 20s thinking of myself as "lucky" because I was only thrown out for two days after I was outed to my parents as gay. Had it been that I was trans, I would have been lucky to even make it to homelessness because of my stepdad's bigotry. This is the kind of thing that could directly lead to the deaths of trans teenagers.
― boxedjoy, Tuesday, 1 November 2022 22:36 (one year ago) link
Keir Starmer has given an interview to Justine Roberts, the founder of parenting and anti trans message board Mumsnet.Here is everything Keir Starmer said about trans topics to Mumsnet.1/17— What The Trans!? (WhatTheTrans.com) (@WhatTheTrans) November 1, 2022
whole lot more bullshit from him here
after all this i'm labor to be whipped to abstain when the tories make their recently announced move to gut existing legal protections for trans people
― ufo, Tuesday, 1 November 2022 22:37 (one year ago) link
thinking of all the shitty wretched nights I spent at Boys Brigade football practice and so on, just being miserable and easily targeted by peers, at the insistence of a parent who thought the best thing for me was to suffer that in a pathetic attempt to become more masculine (spoiler: it didn't work, I'm still fabulous) - it was awful, and I didn't even have it that bad at all in comparative terms.
― boxedjoy, Tuesday, 1 November 2022 22:40 (one year ago) link
He's an amoral right-wing social conservative and he's very bad at hiding it at the best of times. But he's certainly not going to try too hard to hide it when he's talking to mumsnet. He'll throw anyone under a bus this cunt - especially now he feels like the next GE is going to be winnable.
― calzino, Tuesday, 1 November 2022 23:10 (one year ago) link
djmartian at 11:11 2 May 08This is the man to save Labour: John McDonnell
― nashwan, Tuesday, 1 November 2022 23:19 (one year ago) link
oops quoted two months ago ha ha still tho
McD get's a lot of shit from the left and he certainly isn't above criticism. But I sure do miss him, especially after seeing that video above.
― calzino, Tuesday, 1 November 2022 23:23 (one year ago) link
Despicable, pathetic little man.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 2 November 2022 11:04 (one year ago) link
read that the mumsnet transphobes weren't appeased by this anyway because Starmer said kids could still socially transition with parental approval, whereas they don't think anyone should ever be allowed to transition ever. so once again he's appealed to nobody.
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 12:16 (one year ago) link
a lot of this stuff is an effort to appeal to or signal to people who might be broadly sympathetic to voting Labour and just want him to offer the fig leaf. the same applies when he tries to woo the LBGTQ+ community, trade unions, people who fondly remember the Labour Party etc
― wearing wraparounds (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 12:19 (one year ago) link
xp ofc, Stella Creasy did a q&a on there and every single question was about it, absolute lunacy
― after several days on “the milk,” (gyac), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 12:23 (one year ago) link
No point in trying to please fanatics arguing from a deranged position of personal identity, you can never ever appease them enough. Better to just say what you think, although like his forebear Blair Starmer appears to think nothing whatsoever other than a vague sense of patriotic authoritarianism.
― zeuhl's forgotten man (Matt #2), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 12:49 (one year ago) link
I think these people are (usually implicitly) arguing from a *collective* identity of aggrieved middle class whiteness not from unique personal identity - that's the only reason powerful men give a shit about what they have to say after all
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 12:59 (one year ago) link
pic.twitter.com/WlW0Yv3c93— Dr Unpleasant #EnoughIsEnough (@drunpleasant) November 18, 2022
― the pinefox, Friday, 18 November 2022 09:52 (one year ago) link
Rachel Reeves once took a ball off a kid at an engagement party and threw it over the back fence before shouting at the kid and making them cry, then shouting at their parents as well. The parents ended up making a "her or us" at the wedding ultimatum to the engaged couple.— Sii (@skippy_0h) November 18, 2022
― Burnt Norton 360 (Noodle Vague), Friday, 18 November 2022 10:57 (one year ago) link
this ghoul makes Jeremy Hunt seem like a human being... yeah I know!
― calzino, Friday, 18 November 2022 11:03 (one year ago) link
He's not only one of the best MPs in Parliament and a fierce champion of the working class, but he's also an amazing friend and comrade.I'm honestly so thrilled @IanByrneMP has been reselected as the Labour MP for Liverpool West Derby 🥳❤️ pic.twitter.com/3eNcyitH5e— Zarah Sultana MP (@zarahsultana) November 20, 2022
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 20 November 2022 19:10 (one year ago) link
this saved me organising my thoughts
I think that SCG M.P.s are often less bad personally but their presence lends legitimacy to the Labour machine that will ultimately grind them into paste. That said, it is fun to see Harpin, Akehurst, and assorted Briefcase Enthusiasts eat shit every once in a while.— Kier Hardly (@KeirWillow) November 20, 2022
― Queremos cerveza (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 20 November 2022 19:12 (one year ago) link
that's about the only good thing about it, even with the odds heavily stacked in their favour these ghouls can't even manage a stitch-up properly
― calzino, Sunday, 20 November 2022 19:15 (one year ago) link
Quite an interesting piece on the politics of that seat.
https://www.livpost.co.uk/p/ian-byrne-fights-for-survival
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 20 November 2022 19:49 (one year ago) link
"Crick believes there is a “lot of resentment” from the Corbyn years, when left-wing candidates were parachuted into seats"
except this never actually happened
― calzino, Sunday, 20 November 2022 20:36 (one year ago) link
not only did it not happen, but they didn't expel any of the right wing scumbags who are running amok now ffs
― Queremos cerveza (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 20 November 2022 21:24 (one year ago) link
Michael Crick still has a job has he?
― Fronted by a bearded Phil Collins (Tom D.), Sunday, 20 November 2022 21:24 (one year ago) link
His current job sounds made-up.
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 20 November 2022 21:51 (one year ago) link
“…michael crick?”
― Wiggum Dorma (wins), Sunday, 20 November 2022 22:03 (one year ago) link
Yeah, right wing scumbags accusing Corbyn and/or Momentum of doing all the stuff they really should have been doing but didn't is a thing
― 49 Percent Jesus (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 21 November 2022 09:27 (one year ago) link
Don't think that's what Lab left should've been doing. It's really petty, very locally factional stuff, picking one member at a time. The couple is constantly fighting, when divorce is an option.
I don't know how you would go about this but maybe it would be a re-drawing of the party constitution. Maybe mass taking away of whips from some of the worst MPs and some that might be ok but are landlords, or have interests, for example. Jobs jobs 'Unions' like GMB are toxic and would be kicked out too. The problem is it would make it smaller at first, you'd maybe lose an election or two but overtime it's organised into something worthwhile with a coherent set of policies.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 21 November 2022 09:42 (one year ago) link
https://t.co/Q9S4AUq57O pic.twitter.com/rBODuLAP5P— the penny respecter (@ChrisKPH) November 26, 2022
― the pinefox, Sunday, 27 November 2022 10:19 (one year ago) link
coke and sublime
― nashwan, Sunday, 27 November 2022 10:45 (one year ago) link
The 56D chess game continues pic.twitter.com/gbQMlLX2hU— j (@jrc1921) November 29, 2022
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 November 2022 10:42 (one year ago) link
She's been staunchly, tepidly supportive of him in the hope that he'll suddenly be who she thinks she wants him to be. pic.twitter.com/QFaVPtlrfr— Kamal Prashar (@kampra) November 29, 2022
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 29 November 2022 10:47 (one year ago) link
ah centrism. the vibes, the whole vibes and nothing but the vibes
― this display name blocked by FIFA (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 29 November 2022 10:47 (one year ago) link
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-miliband-labour-general-election-b2235070.html
― Oh wouldn't it be rubbery? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 November 2022 13:54 (one year ago) link
Big Beast.
Straining the already stretched metaphorical applicability of the words both “big” and “beast” IMO pic.twitter.com/vkfPlWgP1z— Flying_Rodent (@flying_rodent) December 20, 2022
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 20 December 2022 16:36 (one year ago) link
Tend to agree.
Nobody’s going to be able to stop Starmer getting in, but for gods sake don’t encourage the creeping fascism of the party by voting for him. The task is to break up a party that’s made itself morally meaningless and create the conditions where it’s forced to alter itself.— matthew collings (@matthew51691936) February 20, 2023
― the pinefox, Monday, 20 February 2023 18:13 (one year ago) link
do i want to click that tweet and read a bunch of maroons calling him a tory enabler? no sir, i do not
― satori enabler (Noodle Vague), Monday, 20 February 2023 19:12 (one year ago) link
when the Tories have been voted out and they aren't actually opposing or voting against any of Labour's detrimental austerity+ benefits and NHS reforms and Rosie Duffield is the new minister for woman and equalities, that will be the time to congratulate yourself that you weren't no Tory enabler in 2024!
― calzino, Monday, 20 February 2023 20:15 (one year ago) link
Do you really think Duffield gets any women’s or equalities job before Jess Phillips? The latter would elbow the former in the face for shits and giggles.
― put a VONC on it (suzy), Tuesday, 21 February 2023 09:06 (one year ago) link
no, I was just rhetorically using Duffield for dramatic effect!
― calzino, Tuesday, 21 February 2023 09:30 (one year ago) link