Hello Mudduh Hello Fadduh: ILX Rolling Parenting Thread

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when I was pregnant and told people I was expecting a boy, they would always whisper "boys are easier!" Perhaps they're easier to raise (my husband and his brothers make me doubt this though) but I imagine it gets really really hard once they're around 14-15, there's just so many ways for them to get in trouble. The thing that I think is bullshit is that if I raise a boy who respects women and is emotionally honest and kind, he's going to get the shit beat out of him. Well, not necessarily, but you know what I mean.

TV: I grew up in a limited access household--b&w broadcast channels from maybe age 4 onward, got cable around age 9, never a big tv addict--and would really like to throw the box out now that the kid's around. I say that but I don't know if it's really true because my husband likes tv so much I'm not going to have the choice. And of course I watch a ton of TV during the day because it's nice to have background noise and it's hard to do anything else and nurse at the same time. We're setting up our house with a tiny tv room and a big family room though, with places to play and read--I think this is good, keep the tv away from gathering areas. I'm glad we have Tivo to restrict access and cut out commercials when the time comes to introduce the kid to tv. And I do have fond memories of watching the twilight zone and Cosmos with my dad, there's good things about tv too.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:25 (eighteen years ago) link

I'll be having a boy (Anthony Ian) at the end of June. We learned the sex yesterday. We were so convinced it was a girl that it was a bit of a shock. Now we have to decide about circumcision, egads.... (yes I've read the ILX circumcision threads, no they didn't help). I'm looking forward to having a son with a mix of fear and excitement. I know it'll be fine though.
Hey Kyle! I'm expecting a baby in June too. 12th June to be exact. We also had our scan last Thursday & had to sex the baby ourselves as the hospital we went to had a policy of not divulging the sex. Luckily the lady said we could try ourselves & we're pretty convinced we've got a little boy on the way. :-)

Panther Pink (Pinkpanther), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:30 (eighteen years ago) link

oh and yeah nath don't listen to your father-in-law, it's true, you can't spoil an infant. It won't kill anyone to let her cry for a few minutes if you need to pee or whatever, but crying is her only way of communicating that she wants something, and her wants are her needs at this point. Would you prefer that she *not* tell you that she's hungry or needs a new diaper? You know this of course, it's just a matter of figuring out how to deal with the relatives. Trust your instincts, for real.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Through judicious use of DVDs, I'm trying to convince Edith it's 1974. I've even got Charley Says for the adverts.

Sending her to nursery makes us unhappy. She doesn't seem to mind, but we do. I don't think it will make her sociable, she is only 10 months old and takes no notice of the other kids (something I secretly find admirable). Plus she is always ill. If she carries on like this she will grow up to be like Morrissey. Before nursery she was vigorous and strong, a state she reverts to at weekends.

Photo:

ihttp://www.flickr.com/photos/25214957@N00/91393888/

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Bah, didn't work. Try another:

http://static.flickr.com/19/91397533_c063cc53f3.jpg

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:50 (eighteen years ago) link

There we are!

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:50 (eighteen years ago) link

(To embed a Flickr photo, PJM, you have to select "Different sizes" and then copy and paste the URL of whichever size you want.)

xpost!

We have the telly on a lot and Ava seems less interested now that packing boxes prevent her from licking/slapping the screen. We haven't thought so far ahead as to imagine what damage we may be doing to her with TV. She dances to all the adverts and I'm not taking that away from her.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 30 January 2006 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link

TV: I grew up in a limited access household--b&w broadcast channels from maybe age 4 onward, got cable around age 9, never a big tv addict--and would really like to throw the box out now that the kid's around.

I'm very weary of banning a TV (or any other media). You have to educate a person (child or adult) on how to watch television. The box is not evil, it's how you handle it. This is of course easier said than done, but I am not anti-TV (nor internet) at all.

And, yes, that's how I see it as well, Teeny: you can't spoil a baby. From six months onwards they do start to make connections and then I'll try to make sure she doesn't see the connection. I don't want a spoilt child but I don't want an unloved baby either. :-) I realize that dependency can be a problem: as a child I was very dependant on my mom and they really had to cut the umbilical cord later on: I would go absolutely mental if my mom left me alone (with my dad or anyone else). When I was about three, my dad told my mom to leave so he could cut the cord. It was painful but very necessary. :-)

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Monday, 30 January 2006 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I didn't get an URL because it's not my Flickr account. I was leeching my wife's.

Incidentally, Michael, you might want to have a word with Edith because she applauded Chelsea's goal the other day. Obviously she didn't get any encouragement from me.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 14:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Like this?

ihttp://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=91393888&size=m

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 14:48 (eighteen years ago) link

No.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 30 January 2006 14:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Ah, I don't think you can see the URLs if it's not your account; it should give you the option of copying a URL that starts http://static.flickr.com/ from a box beneath the image.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 30 January 2006 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Hi, me again...

Just wanted to clarify. I guess I came on a little strong because this is something I feel strongly about, but I'm not totally anti-TV. Truth is, I'm anti-commercials. That's where the worst damage is done. That's where our children are brainwashed into becoming mindless consumers and also fed frustratingly damaging images of what and how they "should" be and "should" want. As adorable as the image of a cute kiddo dancing to commercials is, you have to ask yourself what the child is internalizing.

Ask a TV-watching child to quote ads to you sometime, and prepare to be alarmed. Hell, it happened to us, too. I can still remember commercial jingles from the 1960s when I can't begin to haul up the Preamble to the Constitution any more.

And this isn't accidental. That's what commercials are for. They're *made* to do that, and they do it very effectively. If our boys think it's the coolest thing to be sullen dullard skate punks, where are they getting that image? If our girls think they need to be sleek amd made-up and sexy at age nine, where are they getting that idea? From us?

Television programs are sometimes nearly as bad, but the commercials are the real problem. And in case you think I'm just a ranting old lady, I used to teach advertising writing at the university level. Eventually, my soul couldn't take it any more.

Anyway, TiVo, from what I understand, can take the commercial problem away, which is awesome. Once we allowed our daughter and ourselves to start watching TV again, she wasn't allowed to watch Saturday morning TV at all. Or any commercial television aimed specifically at children. That crap exists ONLY to create desire and promote consumerism.

Buy or rent videotapes or DVDs instead.

Oh god, I've ranted again. Let me just crawl off into a corner and shut the hell up.

Hey Jude, Monday, 30 January 2006 17:35 (eighteen years ago) link

hahaha, don't forget we all watched ST:TNG every Saturday at 6!

truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 30 January 2006 17:45 (eighteen years ago) link

that's what this thread is here for! and I think there's a lot of agreement on the tv issue here.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 17:49 (eighteen years ago) link

And, yes, that's how I see it as well, Teeny: you can't spoil a baby.

ditto. babies need to be held. plus, they're so much fun to hold. to me, spoiling a kid is refusing to set limits (on toys, food, tv, whatever). i don't think anyone's ever been spoiled by an excess of hugging.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 30 January 2006 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link

As adorable as the image of a cute kiddo dancing to commercials is, you have to ask yourself what the child is internalizing.

At 11 months? Beyond "this has got a good beat"? But, yes, I fear she may have already made up her mind about which home contents insurance provider to patronise and which loo roll is the softest. Fortunately, British commercial breaks are full of plain-looking people struggling to secure loans on bad credit, so, in terms of aspirational images...er, yes I see your point.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:08 (eighteen years ago) link

I remember my nephew aged 2 or less, I forget, singing us the mcdonald's jingle, argh.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago) link

but otoh you just never know, my husband was parented in a way that I don't agree with--lots of tv, lots of bad food (his baby teeth rotted out as soon as they came in), etc etc, and he's fucking brilliant. Middle-class parent in overworry shockah.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Kids just need to know the television is not always their friend. That it sometimes lies to them or tries to convince them to do stupid things - iow, just like some other people do. That's why there are stories of tricksters - from Coyote, to Odysseus, to Tom Sawyer and whitewashing the fence - to teach kids how gullible they should not be. Television-watching skills are just like other social skills that way.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 30 January 2006 18:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Well said, Aimless. And I just think it's one of the roles of a parent to protect from potential harm until they reach the age where you can explain that to them. That age varies from child to child. The mom and dad know when a kid's starting to understand abstract concepts.

And yes, we did watch ST:TNG. *grin* Which is probably the entire reason why the kiddo is a geek.

Hey Jude, Monday, 30 January 2006 19:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Kids also need to know that you are not their friend. You are their parent and it's a huge difference that lots of parents avoid discerning for one reason or another.

My wife was raised like your husband Teeny. And she's pretty brilliant as well. But I think in the long run you want to play the odds and assume that not everyone will be as lucky as our spouses are. Not to mention that sound eating habits have obvious rewards.

don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 30 January 2006 21:21 (eighteen years ago) link

You wait till Ava starts saying, "Calm down, Dad, it's only a commercial" when you're throwing a wobbler.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 08:21 (eighteen years ago) link

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/birdnestsoup/panda.jpg

Here's Bill, he's two. His favourite thing ever is Thomas the Tank Engine. Also loves drawing, squirrels, Postman Pat and walking like a robot.

NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 11:12 (eighteen years ago) link

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3838/12040008pshop4x61lh.jpg

Almost 2, waiting for his little brother or sister to arrive (sometime this week), with his bunny, named "Money." Faves: balloons, "bidee-roes", and trains incl. Thomas.

Hunter (Hunter), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 16:30 (eighteen years ago) link

money bunny!

I am shocked at my new appetite for baby pictures.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Sarah's first time in this new sleeper/costume. She called the bunny ears "bummy hairs."

truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 17:20 (eighteen years ago) link

So what's the consensus on breastfeeding versus bottle feeding? I'm going mental with the breastfeeding. As much as I like it and my breasts have adjusted (and actually quite like it), I can't deal with the post-breastfeeding. She burps, throws up and hiccups for at least an hour and sometimes even more. I don't know if I'm eating right or that her stomach just can't handle my milk. I feel guilty for not giving her proper milk, feel guilty for wanting to switch to bottle (pumped milk and/or formula), feel guilty for getting cranky about it all. Also, I do want to get back to work... I want the best solution for both. :-( Bah.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Don't feel guilty.

Edith was only brestfed for about two days (two very hungry days) and she is a fine strapping lass. Swings and roundabouts, I'd say. I'm not very keen on sterilising, but that's all.

I think you can mix and match.

Did anyone watch that programme about breastfeeding last night? Corking stuff - like a series of Little Britain sketches.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Nathalie, I'll try and remember to ask my wife what she thinks about your brestfeeding woes cos she knows lots about this in her professional capacity.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:56 (eighteen years ago) link

(Err, just to clarify, she's a health visitor, not some bizarre lactating lady of the night)

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:57 (eighteen years ago) link

I love this thread.

Most important thing Natalie (my wife tells me) - don't feel guilty - a few months down the line you'll be thinking "why did i let this get to me!?".

My parent profile - two children Louis, 8 and Mae, 4. Mae has just started school, which in my humble opinion is a little too early because I miss her! I stayed home and looked after the kids purely because financially it seemed the most sensible way, my wife has always earned a lot more than me. I do a few hours paid work a week now.

I don't know if I have much advice. You get so much advice from everyone that you wind up beating yourself up over whether you're doing the right thing. Having said that I find that If the kids are happy, you will be happy. And vice versa. And one way to stay happy is to get as much sleep as possible. This was one of the most difficult things for us, and it seems cruel going through the process of getting them to sleep through but I think it's worth it for everyone.

Anyway, here's a picture of Mae as an angel at her playgroup's xmas do.
http://static.flickr.com/34/72507088_9134fdc0f0.jpg

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:59 (eighteen years ago) link

And this is Louis - taken by Mae...I've posted this elsewhere but it makes me laugh...so...(I'm at the back)
http://static.flickr.com/33/41264557_11e478739e.jpg?v=0

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:02 (eighteen years ago) link

PJ Miller: Taped that programme for the missus, only tiny bit I caught was a woman breastfeeding her 8-year old. Which was just a little freakish. Oh, and a soundbite from some twattish bloke saying that public breastfeeding should be banned on account of 'paedofiddlia'.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:03 (eighteen years ago) link

I realize that I should stick to it - breastfeeding is the healthiest option - but I can't seem to get in *synch* with her and feel as though all her throwing up, hiccups and burps are my fault. We have looked into what could cause it. Maybe I am eating too much milk and yoghurt and she's a bit allergic to it? The problem is that if I bring it up with the childcare and midwives, they of course stress that I should keep breastfeeding. It's as if bottle feeding is child abuse. I also feel guilty about considering the bottle since I do want to get back to work and breastfeeding is hard: I'm in the shop and she cries, I can't really throw my tit in the back for the baby. ;-) I also know it's partially sleep deprivation and blasting headaches which make me so emotional at times.

In one word: ARGH.

But, hey, one look at Ophelia and I melt.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh shit, yeah, do you mean that ITV program? I saw a bit... but I think it was morning telly... Some mommies do breastfeeding up until their kids are six and even later! My mum saw this on the subway in Tokyo: some woman gave her kid, a boy about seven, the breast in PLAIN VIEW! Sicko.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Just a thought Natalie - are you sure your winding her properly? You'd be surprised just how much gas you can bring up sometimes.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:14 (eighteen years ago) link

(sorry - IOU 1 x 'h')

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:15 (eighteen years ago) link

hmm, i think so, but i'll look into it.

no problem about the h. :-)

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I think it was Channel 4. "Paedofiddlia" man made me laugh more than anything on television has made me laugh for quite a while.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Also, I think the insistence on breastfeeding can certainly add to the anxiety if it isn't going perfectly. They're a bit over the top really.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 2 February 2006 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, they can get a bit evangelistic. If you do want to continue breastfeeding and get back to work, have you tried expressing milk and bottle-feeding that?

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 12:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, I have. I brought it up and the woman at Kind&Gezin (Child&Family) thought I was talking about formula feeding so she began shouting at the phone:"Oh no!" but then, when she realized I was talking about pumping, she said it could be done but wasn't keen on the idea. This is all good and well: but if you run a shop, it's difficult to send the employees somewhere else every few hours especially if one of'em is *hard of hearing*. I practically have to beg her to go away. *sigh*

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 12:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe I am eating too much milk and yoghurt and she's a bit allergic to it?

Don't worry about this; milk proteins and lactose don't work this way, as you will digest them first. Other things can pass into your milk untouched because they are absorbed directly into your bloodstream - alcohol, the volatile oils from garlic and onions.

It can work well to express your milk and bottle feed, and to nurse the baby when possible - I did it for months. Freeze your milk as soon as possible to preserve the enzymes and warm it under warm, not hot, running water. It is important to nurse the baby as often as you can (I was able to once in the morning and two-three times in the evenings), otherwise your milk will eventually dwindle.

Even though I nursed my son, he was a projectile vomiter. It was just the way he was (apparently, I was too). He eventually grew out of it, though it was frustrating all the time it happened. As long as the baby is filling her diapers and gaining weight, she's doing fine, regardless of spit-ups and burps.

Jaq (Jaq), Thursday, 2 February 2006 13:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Argh, I wrote that in haste, it's over-simplified - but all proteins and complex sugars will be broken down by your digestive system into their component amino acids and simple sugars before your milk ducts re-assemble them into the proteins and sugars that make up your milk.

Jaq (Jaq), Thursday, 2 February 2006 14:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I'll be all about this thread by September.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 2 February 2006 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Aw, congratulations!

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

How far along are you Raymond?

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Woohoo! Congratulations! Post ultrasound pics and tell us all about morning sickness. :-)

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Natalie, my first son threw up after breastfeeding for the first 6-8 months of his life. As in, after 90% of his feedings, his burps would result in vomitus. My wife was paranoid with fear but repeated trips to the doctor allayed that somewhat. His favorite thing was to puke down my back. In other words, my experience was the same as Jaq's.

congrats, Raymond!

don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 2 February 2006 17:27 (eighteen years ago) link


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