"The Wire" on HBO

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i like the corner and oz.

scg, Saturday, 19 March 2005 18:51 (nineteen years ago) link

'But are there really any occasions when characters are watching television, and it doesn't either push the plot along or include some kind of meta comment on the narrative? It's never gratuitous.'

I guess the only way I can refute this is by going back and looking at those eps, which sounds like a pain in the ass. I know that WHAT they're watching usually has some kind of thematic relevence, but I never felt like it enriched the narrative or contributed much? It also frequently came off as self-parody to me. I guess I just prefer more to be HAPPENING in my tv (cf. the Wire), and this particular trope always felt emblematic of the show's slothfulness.

(and yeah, not unrealistic, but it's hardly a documentary etc blah blah)

Cabaret Voltron (PUNXSUTAWNEY PENIS), Saturday, 19 March 2005 18:57 (nineteen years ago) link

me and my friend were really really stoned watching the final episode of the corner, and when it got to the end and the guy interviewed the real family we totally spun out and was nearly sick. one of the darkest pieces of television i've ever watched.

scg, Saturday, 19 March 2005 19:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't know, man. I love the Wire intensely, especially right now, but I think that the plot is waaaaaay more slothful than the Sopranos, which seems to move at a much quicker pace for the most part, even during the fourth season. (Which is extremely underrated.)

The Sopranos seasons: 3 > 5 > 4 > 1 > 2

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Sunday, 20 March 2005 08:26 (nineteen years ago) link

o that's crazy

1 > 2 > 5 > 3 > 4

j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 20 March 2005 17:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Three is the worst season! The second episode of that season is also the worst SINGLE episode ever.

(Not seen Five):

But 1 > 2 > 4 > 3.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 20 March 2005 18:01 (nineteen years ago) link

The Wire > Deadwood > Sopranos

Chris Marx, Sunday, 20 March 2005 19:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Season 1 and 2 of The Sopranos have their up points and are generally pretty good, but all of the worst episodes of the series in those seasons. Especially season 2 - there's some major duds in there, plus way too much pointless selfawareness in the narrative. Definite softmore slump. Season 1 is mostly quite good, but then you have that lousy episode with the rappers that completely throw off the average. I understand why some people like season 1 the best - it has a lot of wish fulfillment in the narrative, but to me that's pretty boring compared to the slow dissolution of the Soprano family over the most recent three seasons. You can have Richie Aprile and Mikey Palmice, I'll have Ralph Ciferetto, Tony Blundetto, Johnny Sac, and Phil Leotardo, thanks.

Alex In SF, I can't believe that you really believe that "Proshai, Livushka" is the worst episode of the series. I'd easily place that one in the top ten or top fifteen. If you really think that duds like "Commendatori," "D-Girl," and "A Hit Is A Hit" are better, then hey, whatever. We're not going to see eye to eye on this!

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Um, "sophomore slump."

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:12 (nineteen years ago) link

"d-girl"'s great!

j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:21 (nineteen years ago) link

You rate an episode which has an awkward computer generated face superimposed on someone's body and feels like a desperate attempt to integrate someones real life death into the show's narrative? You're right we aren't going to see eye to eye on this.

Also "D-Girl" is great. The other two are just okay though.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Season Three also has the Jackie Junior/Meadow melodrama which is probably one of my least favorite subplots.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:43 (nineteen years ago) link

johnny sack > mikey palmice
richie aprile > ralph ciferetto
big pussy > tony blundetto

j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:51 (nineteen years ago) link

All of them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jackie Jr

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:51 (nineteen years ago) link

it's all about the pine barrens, obv. and for the wire, it's all about the second (or third?) to last episode of season two. the one that starts with "i walk the line."

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Sunday, 20 March 2005 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

You rate an episode which has an awkward computer generated face superimposed on someone's body and feels like a desperate attempt to integrate someones real life death into the show's narrative?

Well, what else were they supposed to do? Pretend the character never existed? Please be even a little bit realistic or sympathetic about this. That one scene isn't that big of a deal, but the rest of the episode is VERY strong. It was a great send off for that character, who had run her course either way.

Ralph Cifaretto > all other similar antagonist characters on the show combined, and has the best death episode of anyone in the five seasons to date.

I'm not that sour about Jackie Jr, but I do agree that it's not one of the best subplots in the series. A lot of the reason that I love season 3 is the stuff with Tony and Carmella, the introduction of Ralph, "Pine Barrens," and the Gloria Trillo storyline. I have a certain fondness for season 3 because it's the season where the show really comes together. Season 1 and season 2 are good, but there's some flailing in season 2 that makes me suspect that the writers weren't 100% sure where they were going with it, and were still reeling from the massive success of the first season.

I saw that Wire episode with "I Walk The Line" at the start of it (it's called "Storm Warnings") for the first time yesterday. I agree, it's exceptional. It's hard to pick stand-out episodes in the Wire because it's all so consistent, but yeah, that's on the shortlist for me.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Sunday, 20 March 2005 23:36 (nineteen years ago) link

actually was the jar jar lidia episode the same one with her wake? cuz her wake was fantastic

j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 20 March 2005 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh hey, can anyone tell me where I might find season 3 of The Wire online? I'm too hooked right now to wait til the dvd, and HBO isn't rerunning it any time soon.

Yes, the "Jar Jar" Livia is the same episode as her wake. The wake is the majority of the episode, and that one scene with her is no more than two minutes.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Sunday, 20 March 2005 23:40 (nineteen years ago) link

See I feel like Season Three is the real "flailing" season for me. Season Two was very specifically tailored to be ultimately about Pussy and Tony and that season's final episode is maybe one of my favorite ones.

There are two or three really great individual episodes in Season Three (Pine Barrens is amazing, so is the first one--Mr Ruggiero's Neighborhood--with the FBI, also all the bits with Janice and the one legged lady are brilliant) but it's got a lot of the weakest subplots too (Charles S Dutton, Melfi's rape, I don't rate the Gloria subplot at all, and of course almost all of the Jackie Jr stuff.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 21 March 2005 00:54 (nineteen years ago) link

The Sopranos is just about a better subject: the subconscious. The Wire is about work, which is almost as great, but isn't going at you on as many levels...

Pete Scholtes, Monday, 21 March 2005 03:35 (nineteen years ago) link

I think you're wrong about Dominic West's accent on the show. I never would have guessed he was a Brit. And though I haven't met tons of Baltimore white folks, many of them do have a weird accent that can sound British, Southern, and Bostonian all at the same time...

Pete Scholtes, Monday, 21 March 2005 03:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Finished Pelecanos's Soul Circus not long ago, too. He's on an American book tour starting March 28, and any fans of The Wire should check it out:
http://www.twbookmark.com/features/georgepelecanos/tour.html

Pete Scholtes, Monday, 21 March 2005 03:43 (nineteen years ago) link

I was surprised to learn that Dominic West was not an American, and double surprised to learn that Idris "Stringer Bell" Elba is from England.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 21 March 2005 05:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Spot-on accent or no, Elba's performance is just incredibly convincing. I don't think I paid as much attention to Stringer in the first season, but there's so much nuance in every scene he does in the second season. That scene with Brother Mouzone in the hospital and his last scene with Avon in episode 12 of season 2 really impressed me in particular.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 21 March 2005 05:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Davey D's article on Elba (who's from Hackney, London, and is a DJ):

http://p076.ezboard.com/fpoliticalpalacefrm34.showPrevMessage?topicID=1332.topic

From MTV news:
http://www.mtv.com/bands/m/mixtape_monday/092704/

Meeting Idris Elba is a straight bug-out. He's been in videos by Fat Joe and most recently Angie Stone, but he's best known as kingpin Russell "Stringer" Bell on HBO's "The Wire." So imagine how ill it is to holla at him for the first time and discover that he has a thick British accent and he's a DJ. "I've been collecting records since I was like 10," said Elba, who grew up in London. The actor, whose DJ name is Big Dris, began spinning around the age of 14. "I started out with my uncle," he remembered. "He had a sound system called Sound International back in London. He basically did weddings. I was the speaker boy. ... By the time I was 15, me and my men from around the way started our own little sound that was called the Social Affair Sound [and] we started doing local parties." Dris, who began putting it down behind the turntables in clubs by the time he was 19, has been living part-time in NYC for the last six years and actually started earning his living by spinning in the East Village and Alphabet City before landing a guest appearance on "Law and Order" in 2001. His stint on "The Wire" began in 2002. Dris said things are going to get ugly this season for his character, but in real life, Elba is straight. He's already put out a series of street CDs called Foot Fetish, and he's linking up with other DJs to put out collaborations. "I consider myself a blend DJ more than anything," he said. "Like my mixtapes, the way I want to see them grow, I basically want to see if I can get my mixtapes to showcase new talent. I can't compete with the big boys on getting the freestyles and all that, because I don't have the connects yet. Eventually, I'd like to get the new freestyles, but at the same time, I want to see the new cats that's coming up."

Pete Scholtes, Monday, 21 March 2005 07:37 (nineteen years ago) link

I hope to track down this book, too:

Hey Cabbie! by Thaddeus Logan

http://www.citypaper.com/bob/story.asp?id=174

Pete Scholtes, Monday, 21 March 2005 07:38 (nineteen years ago) link

hey matthew sorry i haven't responded to yr email. i'm not sure how to get season three, though supposedly it's coming out this summer. certainly you could get it via bittorrent i'm sure, and i bet some folks on the hbo wire message board could hook you up. that's all i gots.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:05 (nineteen years ago) link

If it's coming out in the summer, I can probably hold out and netflix them. But oh man, I am dying to get on with the Stringer Bell/Omar/Brother Mouzone storyline.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link

SUMMMER SUMMMMMMER WANT WIRE PART THREE IN SUMMMMER!

Frankenstein in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:54 (nineteen years ago) link

It's probably a wise move to wait a bit on season three if it's going to be at least 12 months til season 4 starts up. (The Sopranos will be on winter 06, so The Wire will probably start around March or April.)

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Be quiet with your marketing REASONS! Want in SUMMER!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 21 March 2005 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually, I think in terms of marketing, sooner is better. I was talking about myself there - it's better that I pace myself right now rather than have to wait a full year to get the next fix.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 21 March 2005 17:32 (nineteen years ago) link

i was told by someone in the know a month or so back that because of the TREMENDOUS success of the wire on dvd, they were gonna get season three out sooner than you might expect. i've seen season three twice now (thanks on demand!). anyone saying it's a drop off is totally nuts.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 21 March 2005 17:48 (nineteen years ago) link

It's no big shock that The Wire would find its greatest success on dvd. That's the perfect format for the show. I know that I never would have gotten into the show if I didn't watch it on dvd in rapid succession. And now I'm hooked and I'll be a regular viewer. It's the only way to make converts, you can't just jump in on that show. I tried, and I was in way over my head.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 21 March 2005 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link

I wish that the box sets weren't so expensive, though. I'd probably buy them if they were more like $30 or $40 instead of $100. I mean, I will probably buy them, just not any time soon on my current income.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, I was very lucky to have someone send me half the first season on tape I managed to watch all of that in about two days and now I'm never getting rid of this monkey.

Austin, Still (Austin, Still), Monday, 21 March 2005 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

three months pass...
Anyone know anywhere on the webs to pick up the third season? I can't WAIT.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Thursday, 23 June 2005 18:17 (eighteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
You can find season 3 at Pirate Bay.

I really liked this show. A whole lot. But didn't anyone else think it was a little too, I don't, Tom Waitsy? Like they were trying to turn Baltimore into New Orleans, a super-colorful gothic place that's full of really colorful eccentrics. And sure, Baltimore is pretty interesting, but come on. I had exactly the same problem with Homicide.

McNulty accent was pretty awful too, especially compared to Stringer Bell's. Everytime he'd really try to put on a Baltimore accent (by saying "Bawmore" or whatever), I winced.


Chris H. (chrisherbert), Thursday, 7 July 2005 23:51 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm finishing up season 2 right now and am kinda disappointed with it after loving season 1. it's funny though how many of the cop actors in "the wire" were previously playing junkies and crackheads in "the corner" mini-series (which i think might be superior to the wire, as far as being a slice of "baltimore reality" goes. but then it is based on true story...)

Ô¿Ô (eman), Friday, 8 July 2005 01:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Season 3 is probably the worst of the three. Partly cause it's the whole Hamsterdam subplot is overtly political and a little hard to believe.

Oh yeah, and the sex scenes! WHY?! It's you're watching a nice, realistic drama then bam, cinemax style softcore.

Chris H. (chrisherbert), Friday, 8 July 2005 04:27 (eighteen years ago) link

goddamit fuck. i'll still rent it though.

Ô¿Ô (eman), Friday, 8 July 2005 04:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, it's worth renting. No question.

Chris H. (chrisherbert), Friday, 8 July 2005 04:53 (eighteen years ago) link

oh my god! i just realised prez is the elevator dude in hudsucker proxy!

that is so cool.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Friday, 8 July 2005 05:11 (eighteen years ago) link

season 1 was OK at parts, kinda patchy i thought. but season 2 was great, although i didn't like it at all in the beginning. it definitely grew on me though and surpassed season 1.
i missed season 3 when it came out and am now following the weekly reruns on hbo2 (wed. nights). so far it is pretty yawny, but it seems they all start out that way. interested to see how it transpires each week ... or may lose patience and download the whole season 3 off bit-Torr.

omar is pretty SIC-WID-IT though.

leonard (tk), Friday, 8 July 2005 05:15 (eighteen years ago) link

I've seen them all in a row up through midway through season 3 (currently being rerun on Wednesdays on HBO2) and seriously I have no complaints. There are maybe a couple inconcruous sex scenes, but I don't know, sometimes the show needs some bit of sexiness or levity because so much of everything else in it is pretty dead serious.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Friday, 8 July 2005 13:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Dude, I laugh a LOT while watching The Wire. The Moving the Desk scene, to take one brilliant example. Snot Boogie. Drunk Driving through the underpass...

I guess a lot of it happens in the pre credit sequence.

Austin Still (Austin, Still), Saturday, 9 July 2005 01:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Okay, the sex scenes can be forgiven or explained away, but Lt. Daniels has his shirt off through half the third season, and he looks like a GI Joe man. Or D'Angelo in that video. He's absurdly ripped, and looks like he's done a 45 minute workout before filming the scenes. I dunno, it distracted me, that's all.

Chris H. (chrisherbert), Saturday, 9 July 2005 02:29 (eighteen years ago) link

He's estranged from his wife, so he's gotta do something to work out that excess energy.

Actually, I find the softcore pretty distracting and not (usually) revelatory of any character or plot stuff, so I have a theory it's all just part of HBO's attempt to keep a minimum tits per hour average on their original shows.

Austin Still (Austin, Still), Saturday, 9 July 2005 02:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I was kinda "whoa" when Daniels was topless - I figured he'd be skinny, not totally ripped.

Any time sex on the Wire borders on gratuitous, it's always McNulty. And it's usually funny.

And yeah, there's a lot of wit in The Wire. Just not a lot of slapstick.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Saturday, 9 July 2005 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Hey, imagine getting that memo: "Love the show, but please add more titties."

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Saturday, 9 July 2005 15:30 (eighteen years ago) link


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