options for the offended 51

Guys?

can't imagine what this site would be like if a bunch of people just seemed to be talking to themselves sometimes

lol @ Stan

I like Trayce's idea a lot btw.

I think the problem of having a classified list of SB motives is that you'd probably need to end up having an "Other" option, which would negate the point of having yr classified list.

I think some kind of shorter time scale for the SBs to wear off might be helpful, the system would then target against bravura acts of dickery rather than longer term irritation. But then longer term irritation seems like a valid SB reason too tbh.

I like the idea that people could rescind their own SBs from weeks back. I would almost certainly make use of that feature and again it would give you a chance to come round to a poster who's annoyed you in the past but who you later get a better understanding of. This seems equivalent to the Suggest Awes idea to me except more elegant and more in keeping with restorative justice. Not sure how much of a pig it would be to code tho.

Anyway thanx for your continuing endeavours.

Thanks :) I guess what I was thinking is that the system, should it stay (and clearly it isnt going anywhere), should perhaps be a little more disciplined. What are we asking for bans to apply to? I think we mostly agree its things like image floods, vicious abuse, assholism... it does get into grey areas of course, but if bans apply to specific things, people can request them on that basis. It wont stop people from clicking "ban because theyre being abusive" on someone they just dont like, but hey, people are people.

argh nabiscoxpost

I do also like the "vote back up" idea. Many forums have a thumbs up and down thing (look at youtube).

Thing is Trayce that if you make people give dishonest reasons for why they've clicked the button then you're not really learning anything from the process.

Well no thats not the idea. The idea is, there are only very specific reasons to want a ban.

Other forums do this simply by having hard and fast rules by which mods will go "ok GTFO" if you break them. Pretty simple, but I know it goes against the whole ILX ethos, so. I dunno.

The argument against sb still seems to be, for the majority of people, "I personally wouldn't have banned x poster".

That's a pretty lame argument.

Everyone that's been sbanned so far has a pretty good idea why, and as someone said upthread it can be traced back to behaviour that was obviously bugging other posters and easily changeable if the bannee so wished.

Most of the posters that were banned, I'd have preferred not to have been, but it wasn't a mystery when they were or anything.

Also- FTR- I've used the SB button. Not a crazy amount of times, but let's be real here people. Everyone against the system on some idealogical level, you've never used it, right?

Right?

As Ive said before I have used it maybe... once or twice. Dom was one. I'm not averse to saying so. The other if there was one, im not sure.

Heck ive got 11 sbs myself at last count and personally I dont know why, but at the same time I'm not indignant *shrug*

I think it would be difficult to enforce reasons for wanting a ban. You'd end up with regular debates over whether a particular post broke the rules - more so than now I'd guess - or SB would end up being something that we already have a facility for: complaining to mods about specific infractions of existing rules.

I understand people are concerned about frivolous or dickish uses of the SB button but when it comes right down to it every poster might well have a different definition of what constitutes frivolous or dickish, the same as people have very different ideas of what constitutes a SBannable post. I would be very wary of coming to conclusions about what "most" posters want SB to be for.

I'm still confused as to why mods are taking flack for this- If people are being frivolous or dickish in their use of the function, then that's a totally separate issue, and who would get to decide if that was the case anyway?

Precisely. I think I know why mods are taking the flack for it tho.

Mods will always cop flack for doing what they do, its pretty simple.

SB was kind of "tut tut it's a shame" when it was the pantomime villains that were getting banned but once much-loved monomaniacs and bores started getting the old 51 it became the greatest human rights outrage in history.

I have just about come around to the idea of SBs in principle, since the mods seem to find it useful. But imo, the bar is being set too low, and too may people are getting SBed. (I realise there's a leap in that sentence, which I can spell out if you want, but I think everyone is bored of that.) So basically, I think we should either increase 51 to 77, reduce 6 months to 3 or 4, or both. Peace.

xp lololo

Pretty sure I've never ever used the SB. I kind of hope that if someone pissed me off all that much, then I'd have the guts to let them know directly. I respect people that do this in a tactful, sensitive way. I do recognise that this approach doesn't actually work in the case of posters that e.g. drive everyone bananas with the endless repetition of their cranky opinions. Those sort of people seem to be shut off from logical argument. I don't think they should be banned for being fools though.

you shouldn't get a tempban from a website for driving everyone bananas?

max's idea re: per-board SBs seems like a good one btw.

http://www.bananabusaruba.com/gallery/images/gallery/gallery_r5_c4.gif

is anyone really driven bananas by e.g. ir (anag)?

Thing is, who is to judge whether being rude to somebody - which is a whole dictionary of micro-distinctions in itself - is worse or more detrimental to the board than attention whoring or persistent thread derailment or whatever else? Some people find one thing spoils their enjoyment of ILX, some people react to something else. It's always other people's skins that look thin, isn't it?

I dunno, but isn't spoiling enjoyment a pretty low bar for sb? Here I'm not thinking of what's possible, since sb as currently implemented doesn't require you to have any reason for s'ing a b. I'm thinking of what's right. Like, it seems to me a better way of dealing with many of the behaviors that have been sb'd so far---basically, repeated thread hijacking by saying the same thing again and again---would be ignoring those posters. Let social ostracism do its work; i.e. don't feed the trolls. But I guess after 9 years or whatever the same kinds of thread hijackings are still happening, so maybe ostracism is never going to happen here.

It gets more complex when someone who 51 people think is a dick, is thought of as a great poster by a bunch of others. So I'm just focusing on what's annoying rather than dickish or bullying.

It gets more complex when someone who 51 people think is a dick, is thought of as a great poster by a bunch of others.

not under sb, it doesn't.

If ostracism was gonna work I guess the internet would be troll-free by now.

My personal feeling is that the mods' main function is to stop ILX turning into other forums, and part of that means we need a system for regulating stupidity just as surely as we try to regulate meanness - both of which are very subjective concepts. SB is a noble work in progress that tries to overcome some of that subjectivity. It's not perfect, but it helps.

I feel you on regulating stupidity. That has a lot more to do with my enjoyment of ILX than the occasional dickish posts do.

Right, I just clicked "Suggest Ban" just to see what happens (did not conclude)

That's a very short 'warning' message, and yeah it could be lengthened and made more "You do realise that this is a radical step, shouldn't you chill the fuck out first? Or was it rally that bad" etc, but of course the reaction would be "yeah yeah yeah, click"

how about the 'confirm Suggest Ban" has to be done in conjunction with entering yr user password?

^ i like.

outcome-'yeah yeah yeah password'

Perhaps with password auto-filling, yes. But in theory it definitely is a stronger physical and hence psychological barrier.

Geir is back, by the way.

xp- outcome- "yeah yeah yeah password jeez the mods are dicks this is a pain"

Geir is back, by the way.

Does he know it yet? Are you informed when your ban ends or do you have to come here to find out?

You get a strippergram.

http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/robopole.jpg

I hope she doesn't have R&B as her strip music.

Akshully if everybody who got 51d was notified by strippergram I think this wd resolve a lot of these issues.

did we ever decide what to do with that extra cash we collected? just sayin, y'know.

ilx sponsored strippergram flying first class, good thoughts

"On the down side, I got SBd for a month, but on the up side I got a strippergram and a 'Sorry We Hate You' cake."

i wonder how many sb's we've collected for derailing this important public service thread.

NONE

thank you, mr moderator. your activities are very much appreciated.

was expecting far more dramas on this thread while i was at the pub etc etc

OMG DRINKING ON THE JOB YOU MODS ARE RANCID LET'S TEAR THIS MOTHERFUCKER DOWN ETC

Nah but we took the liberty of contacting a strippergram agency hope that's ok

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/noodle_vague/tarus.jpg

This guy looks like he has the tact and gravitas needed for the job

Or for those posters that just can't take the hint there's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/noodle_vague/sexecute.jpg