Sleater-Kinney breaks up

There's a tendency for a band's latter works to get a consensus nod as "great" when in fact there are stronger earlier works - it's just how the indie system works, latter albums get more press and sell more. Sometimes history corrects itself, but sometimes the same lines get repeated over and over. I've been burned a couple times picking up a band's "definitive" work and not being too impressed, only to find later that 2 or 3 albums prior they hit their peak. That said, the Interweb has changed this a bit, you can get a hold of an entire discography in an afternoon and figure out what's good yourself. Just saying that if the first thing I ever heard from Sleater Kinney was The Woods or All Hands On The Bad One I probably wouldn't go poking around any further in the pile...

re: X should just break up - Well in truth it's all Monday morning quarterbacking innit? Though the general progression is usually entropic, nobody can really tell when a band's dead, dying, or on the verge of a major breakthrough. There really is no argument for not making a record, you never know what's going to happen.

But, alas, kvetching is fun!

I wouldn't get bent out of shape if someone said The Fall should've broken up after Dragnet. It's not like you've got that time machine working yet and even if you did, the band's not likely to obey your call for their cessation unless you said hey I'm from the future and they were intimidated by your sci-fi prowess and decided better break up now rather than face the potential scourge of angry mobs of future time travellers...

(x-post)

There's a tendency for a band's latter works to get a consensus nod as "great" when in fact there are stronger earlier works - it's just how the indie system works, latter albums get more press and sell more. - ok i'm not sure where exactly this statement might apply but decidedly not to indie in the united states.
-- j blount (jamesbloun...)

I'd rather listen to Bad Moon Rising than Daydream Nation or Goo. Do you think Cat Power is going to be remembered for What Would The Community Think rather than You Are Free or (god forfend) The Greatest?

(Not to break up the flow, but - anything to salvage from the first, self-titled LP? Not a word about it yet...)

Just saying that if the first thing I ever heard from Sleater Kinney was The Woods or All Hands On The Bad One I probably wouldn't go poking around any further in the pile...

Well, I can sort of understand that and it's your opinion after all. I think a lot of people got an instant "holy shit, this kicks ass!" reaction off The Woods, and certainly not all of them were previous fans shocked by a new direction - my friend Indy got into the band through this album. All Hands is certainly more of a fan's album, but then, I dunno - I just finished up listening to it and it's pretty solid. I could see somebody buying it and it being the only thing they needed from the band for a long while - that's what happened for me, after all! Whereas Dig Me Out is the kind of album where if you love it you immediately go "What else do they have that I can buy?"

Incidentally, my heart goes out to Tim Ellison for steadfastedly discussing only Beatles '65 in this thread and leaving it up to the reader to determine whether it's all meant as a complex analogy to the tracklist of All Hands On the Bad One, or if he just really wants to talk about Beatles '65. OTM about "Mr. Moonlight" and "Rock N Roll Music" in any case.

mitya - somebody was upping "A Real Man" upthread - I guess this is the next record for me to listen back through in my Sleater-Kinney mourning period. Will comment later tonight...

anyway, i think it's a little hard to classify the singing. it has punk in it, and metal, and that detached indie cool (especially carrie), but can also be pretty in a surprisingly conventional way (although even then there's always a sense that corin is sort of barely restraining herself). i'm not sure how well either one of them can carry a tune, per se, but they're some of my favorite singers.

How about outside yr indie fishbowl?

you think pavement are going to be remembered for slanted + enchanted rather than terror twilight?

That would be the difference between a "tendency" and a "certainty."

do you think evol is namechecked more than nyc ghosts?

No, but I've read loads of press focusing on Daydream Nation and beyond as the locus of their "great work" and heard current SY fans dismiss the earlier "amatuer" stuff.

do you think chronic town is held in higher regard than around the sun?

How many people who own an REM CD even know what the hell Chronic Town is?

when people talk about patti smith they always talk about gung ho but how often do they bring up horses?

Well, Patti was always on a major label, so not really applicable here...

and why do you think people go on and on about candy apple grey while zen arcade toils in obscurity? why is 'waiting room' fugazi's least known song?

I don't know, why do you think they call it dope?

how come when people go on about sleater-kinney they always talk about the woods but never bring up 'i wanna be yr joey ramone' or dig me out?'

Time will tell...

(Not to break up the flow, but - anything to salvage from the first, self-titled LP? Not a word about it yet...)

"A Real Man" = classic

that won't hold any water upon closer examination

But it sure was fun!

-- gear (speed.to.roa...)

Nothing holds water upon closer examination.

http://www.aversion.com/bands/sleaterkinney/images/sleater-kinney.jpg

That's correct, no one outside indieland knows about Sonic Youth (whose Rather Ripped was featured in the weekly Best Buy circular last week), Cat Power (who is frequently namedropped in the New Yorker when she's not dropping trou there), or Sleater-Kinney (who get coverage in obscure indie publications like Time and Rolling Stone). You're right, I must be on Mars and how does Britain have fuckall to do with this?

not saying this is bad or wrong, just think it's interesting that nobody ever seems to be mixed or on-the-fence abt sleater-kinney.

I also love the use of the contrasting voices on Hot Rock, that's what makes that record great to those who love it, and why "Burn, Don't Freeze" makes a lot of the POX lists (since B,DF is the apex of that technique by the band). What does it mean that on The Woods there is barely any difference between the two voices? Brownstein seemed to have completely appropriated Tucker's style on a bunch of the songs.

*holds up sign for "camp middle ground"*

-- m coleman (writeco...), June 29th, 2006.

HI DERE

One more hour
The drama you've been craving
Little Babies
Dance Song '97
I Wanna Be Your Joey Ramone
No Rock n' Roll Fun
Get Up
Oh!
Step Aside
Sympathy
What's Mine is Yours

HI DERE

hey kids let's start a tribute band! I'll dress in combat-boot drag. coming soon to BBKings' on 42st: The Your Joey Ramones

That said, the situation isn't as dire as it was 10-15 years ago. I'm *glad* people are still talking about Bad Moon Rising and EVOL 'cause for years they were ignored and/or dissed. The improving conditions probably have something to do with widespread reissues, high availability of music via p2p / eBay / Amazon, and the wealth of info available on-line.

But when given a choice between interpreting an artist's career as artistic progression of growth vs. entropic decline into diminishing returns, the mainstream tends to support the former view while indie folk support the latter. It's like you've never read a review by Christgau or something. If you say, "Well, who cares what they say," that's a different argument than, "It doesn't happen at all."

still beats talking about sleater-kinney (sorry folks!).

album all-time rank

slanted and enchanted 114
terror twilight 1604

daydream nation 82
sonic nurse 1526

murmur 58
up 1346
(around the sun and reveal apparently didn't rank in the top 2000 and hence weren't ranked at all i guess)

let it be 228
pleased to meet me 761
(all shook down and don't tell a soul didn't rank)

dig me out 577
one beat 1026
BUT IN FAIRNESS TO EDWARD HE MAY WELL BE ONTO A POINT
the woods 616

the greatest and you are free beat moon pix too (the inside scoop from el scandalo knows of what he speaks)!

by and large though i still hold that with indie rock the cliche is 'the early stuff is better'. to quote 'still at the top of his game'/'rock n roll's roger clemens' billy joel - i may be wrong you may be right.

by and large though i still hold that with indie rock the cliche is 'the early stuff is better'.

Yeah, we agree there. All I'm saying is that mainstream folk looking at indie from the outside don't always see it the same way, and given that they have the larger audience they can end up writing the history books...