a specific complaint

in a way, we are all crazy customers, ilx is the store, and IMP is the complaints department

suggest ban doesnt even seem that mean or exclusive anymore really more like temp parole

btw seriously people DON'T SB TUOMAS because the 80's thread is actually shaping up quite nicely

xp when are our overlords going to realise that life means life

its funny to think tombot was originally elevated to mod status cause he served kate in manner teh britishes couldnt bring themselves to

(plus, you shouldn't SB him anyway, he is great)

Wtf did Kate do to get suggest banned? Are we really gonna do this until every ILX regular with a noticeable personality gets SBed? Should the board be ruled by blandness?

― Tuomas, Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:02 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

pretty much touman is otm abt this

kate didnt get any sbs from the pubic hair thread manyxpost to tuomas

pretty soon sb's will be like an asbo, or the time you have to serve to get in with the mafia. everyone will want one.

nah every poster who has been SB'd so far has been totally bland (i.e. predictable)

in the sense that they could be replaced by a robot programmed to post the same 20 phrases ad nauseum

2 b fair u kinda h8 every1

itt: tuomas shocked, n/a jaded

http://rlv.zcache.com/im_getting_too_old_for_this_shit_mug-p1685143786413166582oqjw_210.jpg

must add to chorus--icey brutally otm in here.

this thread title sounds like a john grisham book

TBH I was suprised it took this long - not that it happened. And I say that as someone who hasnt SB her and wouldnt, but I can see why some of her posting style would infuritate people, and I'm completely flummoxed that Tuomas is insisting this isnt obvious.

and we've discussed it before on other threads - but perhaps Kate's banning seems incredible to Tuomas because there is definitely a disparity in people's thresholds for what constitutes a suggest-bannable offense.

it's fairly well covered that tuomas doesn't believe that any behaviour merits a suggest ban, which is fair enough from his point of view. it's his refusal to accept the inevitable results of other people feeling differently that's the killer.

That's When I Reach for My SB Button

We had an entire thread on this subject Sarahel. It was pretty constructive.

Matt DC - that's the thread I was referring to when I said that we had discussed this on other threads.

It was a very constructive thread, agreed.

in the sense that they could be replaced by a robot programmed to post the same 20 phrases ad nauseum

― congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 25 November 2009 05:13 (4 hours ago)

this is v true but could probably be said about many posters tbh

some phrases are more bearable than others

Fucking hell.

That's actually a very good post by Kate. Even if you disagree with her points it's worth to consider that this what people who have been part of this community for years may feel like when they're suddenly SBed. Also, this particular comment by her:

A suggest ban comes without warning, after 51 people have clicked that button. There's NOTHING in the system to say "you're getting close." There's no explanation of WHY you have been banned. Just a blank screen, saying "you have been barred."

If it's supposed to act as a punishment or deterrent, shouldn't it refer the person being punished to some reason *why* they are being punished? If it was a particular post or exchange that triggered the ban, wouldn't it be helpful to tell the person which one it was, rather than leave them hanging in the dark? The refusal to share this information seems perverse at best.

...it totally OTM. Even if mods/admins don't want to get rid of Suggest Bans, they should at least think about how to adress these issues.

The thing that's the most upsetting to me about it - is that there are people here who have serious mental health issues, like Kate, and that, in theory, it's no big thing to be given a 30 day time out, it's just a message board. But for someone who sees it as a lot more than that - as a form of emotional/social support network - which it seems to function as for her, I can understand how she can feel the way she does about being suggest banned and how she can paste all those other implications onto it.

I would feel horrible, as I imagine many other people would, if she were to engage in self-harm because of an ilx suggest ban, even though I had no role in it.

Tuomas, it is hard to sum up and identify a why when it comes to suggest bans tho. obv im not going to get into specifics w/r/t any particular posters, but some running themes (in order to be v v careful about not making kate or any poster feel like i am attacking them, i am going to reemphasise that these are not user specific):

1. insults/personal abuse (the more over the top, the more this contributes)
2. NSFWing a thread intentionally
3. argumentation styles that seem to be built on belittling the importance of others opinions
4. racist/sexist/etc.

the problem here is that #1 and #3 (and to a lesser extent 2 and 4) are very much in the eye of the beholder. also, the post that catches the SB often seems to be just the first instance of the users name that shows up - i see who sbs what posts and when - in other words call it a slow burn reaction, but a lot of the SBS will be in a concentrated period of time and probably more of a "oh hey that person was a real jerk on that thread i was reading and im still pissed about it" thing.

btw the number one SB garnering behavior is #1. in other words, if you go after someone all teeth and claws out of the blue, yer going to get SBed a bunch of times, often by people who rarely use the system. and honestly, im kind of ok with that.

xpost

haha I like this psychological sb breakdown

'a look inside the disturbed mind of a suggest banner'

Very true. The idea that a Suggest Ban is "just a cooling-off period" may be true to some people, but for others it might be a totally different experience. It wasn't particularly tough for me, but I wouldn't want to underestimate how it might feel for people for whom ILX is an essential part of their social life.

Also, Kate's points about paranoia should be taken into serious consideration. In the old system, when you got banned, at least you knew why you were banned. So it actually worked better as a "we punish you so you may learn" type of thing than a Suggest Ban, whe're you're left to ponder by yourself what exactly were your supposed transgressions and who were the people who dislike you enough to click SB. I can understand why that might raise some paranoid thoghts, and no way do I see it as beneficial to either ILX or the banned poster.

(x-post to Sarahel)

Other people started getting banned - not people who were particularly vicious or nasty, but simply posters who had "large" personalities

http://staynalive.com/files/2009/11/Kool-AidMan.jpeg

Tuomas, it is hard to sum up and identify a why when it comes to suggest bans tho.

Would it be impossible, when a person gets SBed, to email him/her a list of his posts that made people click SB? If a Suggest Ban is supposed to make you learn and maybe correct your ways, wouldn't that be an obvious way to help the banned person understand what he/she did wrong?

An early warning system is definitely something we've been talking about, but it'll take work. Can't just yellow card, because that'd show up in the admin log.

Giving a reason for the banning is harder to do. It's not always obvious why people have clicked SB, and there'd be a lot of judgement call involved. It also seems like in the majority of cases people know what's done it, or must have an inkling. Posters don't keep their problems with people quiet here, exactly.

Whiney - do you have a private competition w/KBP going for whom can appear to be the most callous about this?

i don't think that was being callous, it was making a joke about myself.

I sincerely hope masonic is doing ok.

xp If Y, can I join it?

people for whom ILX is an essential part of their social life.

anyone in this situation probably needs more than just a 30 day break

I am against the system fwiw and I think it's retarded but the amount of time and energy we have spent talking about what ends up now just being...a 30 day break from ilx? can't we argue about polls again?

sorry to accuse you Whiney.

maybe we should just hug it out.

hey guys we can talk about this, but i am 100% not comfortable with discussing someones specific mental health situation when they are unable to post, so please try to steer towards the general. Kate has every right to freely talk about her own feelings, but that is her choice, and its unfair for other people to step in and interpret them imo.

bunch o xposts

xpost :)

She DID put them on the internet, jj. I'm not saying I want to be all up in her mental health either, but she published.

hey guys we can talk about this, but i am 100% not comfortable with discussing someones specific mental health situation

when they are unable to post

FUCK, i meant that as a strikethrough

hey guys we can talk about this, but i am 100% not comfortable with discussing someones specific mental health situation when they are unable to post somewhere besides 77 borad

Sorry, Jjjusten, should've read your post better. Still, I think you're making bit of an assumption here:

also, the post that catches the SB often seems to be just the first instance of the users name that shows up - i see who sbs what posts and when - in other words call it a slow burn reaction, but a lot of the SBS will be in a concentrated period of time and probably more of a "oh hey that person was a real jerk on that thread i was reading and im still pissed about it" thing.

How do you know this how the people who click SB think? Maybe they just don't like the person in general, not necessarily for him being a jerk to them, so they click SB on a random message?

(xxx-post)

I only brought it up in the context of the blog post where she talks about it in relation to the sb. Obviously, she's discussed her mental health issues elsewhere on ilx, but since she's not able to respond, it probably isn't a good idea to discuss that without her input.

Kate's s-banning bothers me a lot, as did Tuomas' and Morbius' and gabbneb's...actually, I don't think any of the sbs have been for the best---for me, at least, and I get that others disagree. I dunno, maybe the old clusterfucky "ban XXX" threads were better, because at least they were public. Whatever nasty things were said on those threads, when you're sb'd you're still publicly shamed. I can see why the mods want to avoid having to decide who's a good poster and who's not, and that sb's are supposed to be a way of letting "the people" decide those things. But I think, for a place where your public identity, what you post, is all there is, it would be best to talk these things out, rather than have it be private and easy.

It is sort of Sarah Palin to be all "LOOK AT ME AND MY BAYBEEEE AND MY BEAUTIFUL PREGNANT CHILDREN/HOW DARE YOU REFER TO MY BABY/PREGNANT CHILDREN IN PRINT?"