PS. That line is 'The last truly British people you will ever know', not 'English'.
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 November 2003 14:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 13 November 2003 14:58 (twenty years ago) link
"Ironic given that Morrissey is far from 100% English (ditto Johnny Marr, the Gallaghers) - not exactly "the last truly English people you will ever know"
I don't think your intentions were malign but you rightly reacted very strongly - much more strongly than I did today - to Geir's comments about So Solid, when he appeared to question their 'Englishness'. I agreed with you then.
I also think that ambiguity in a lyric functions very differently from ambiguity in discussion, especially written discussion like this.
― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:05 (twenty years ago) link
― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:09 (twenty years ago) link
Ditto. Should we seek professional help?
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:11 (twenty years ago) link
On with the battle!
The line about 'the last truly British people you will ever know' is from 'We'll Let You Know', a song about football fans:
We're all smiles Then, honest, I swear, it's the turnstiles That make us hostile Oh ... We will descend On anyone unable to defend Themselves Oh ... Your Arsenal ! We may seem cold, or We may even be The most depressing people you've ever known At heart, what's left, we sadly know That we are the last truly British people you'll ever know We are the last truly British people you will ever know You'll never never want to know'
The obvious meaning of the song didn't stop John Harris in the NME from declaring:
'There are moments on this record when the hints of hideous political sympathies that have provided his detractors with new ammunition become full-frontal reminders of why Morrissey needed taking to task in the first place. Here, "England for the English", the line from 'National Front Disco' that began life as a non-committal slogan stolen from someone else's mouth, sounds worryingly like a sincere clarion call - and after a two-minute feedback coda Morrissey announces that he was thinking of releasing the song as a single. Very clever move.It's not the only chilling moment, either. You listen to 'We'll Let You Know', the song that talks about bovver-booted beer lads as "the last truly British people you'll ever know", visualise Morrissey wrapping himself in the flag in front of a backdrop featuring two skinheads, and feel slightly sick.'
Is this stupidity on Harris' part, or wilful misrepresentation?
― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:11 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:24 (twenty years ago) link
It ain't got Dizzee Rascal on it, that's what's wrong with the cunt.
― Jus' A Rascal! Dizzee Rascal!!, Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:33 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:37 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:38 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:44 (twenty years ago) link
we're taking Just keeping The population down You're giving, giving, giving Well, it's your own fault For reproducing We're just keeping The population down
sounds like an editorial to me, a claim to gay virtue straight out of some radical crusading gay magazine.
― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:46 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:50 (twenty years ago) link
of course you could say that its a claim to virtue in celibacy
― zappi (joni), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:52 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 13 November 2003 15:57 (twenty years ago) link
You forgot Mortiis.
I like Suzy's point because I made a similar one in an a.m.a. review of Maladjusted when it came out, ie that somehow the Smiths had both won (the obvious influences and connections via all the bands that Suzy lists) and lost (Moz's beloved pop obsessions of the past had become even MORE of the past, and even more now -- not merely in the passage of time sense, but the new combinations of mainstream pop and presentation since).
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 November 2003 16:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Mary (Mary), Monday, 17 November 2003 20:00 (twenty years ago) link
I love how googling "Stevie Smith" and "Morrissey" together takes me to an OTM Momus post from years ago. Stevie Smith's poetry is very reminiscent of Morrissey's lyrics and themes.
― Cunga, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 20:03 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm still back on "it's an uplifting song because, even though she's so hideous no one will ever love or want her, she can dress herself"
― Huckabee Jesus lifeline (HI DERE), Tuesday, 8 December 2009 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link