The Big Ol' All-Encompassing ILG "LOL Indie Games" Thread

Yeah, Will's beef probably lies in the presentation or something rather than the actual game.

As a habitual semi-lurker, I feel as if I barely know you, s1ocki, even though I see your name around a lot.

Facade wasn't all that - it's touted interactivity (wow, a text parser... that doesn't understand a damn thing I'm saying) didn't cut it. I respect that they were trying something new with the narrative, but it was hardly the leap forward they were claiming.

Honestly?

I didn't play it. My computer can't run that shit.

I respect that they were trying something new with the narrative, but it was hardly the leap forward they were claiming.

Sounds like my opinion of Halo, except for the respect part.

xpost much of this sounds uncannily like the same argument in music. ie "we can't agree on what indie has ever meant, but it's awful now that it means nothing" .
tags like "retro", "experimental", "amateur/homebrew" etc are more useful . Like music, where probably both Slint and Ocean Colour Scene could be classed indie, its just too broad and nebulous a genre category to be meaningful.

(but bamcquern is definitely the Rockist in this thread!

bamcquern please realize i was trying to spark conversation and i certainly didn't mean most of what i said. i fucking LOVE a lot of this stuff. i'm simply repeating tired arguments made by other assholes to get people like you (YES, YOU!) out of the woodworks.

that said dudes like fish and blow DO really irk me. i mean, yeah, your games look fucking cool BUT check your egos, please?

But also, I haven't really explored the IF world so if you could put together some sort of primer/"rough guide" I would be forever indebted.

I do sort of have a problem with roguelikes, however, in that they seem to be pretty much designed with punishment in mind-- I mean, yes, a game should be challenging, but plenty of games CHALLENGE me without making me feel like SHIT (nethack vs. picross, say). I know, apples and oranges... but really. What is the appeal?

(that said I love dwarf fortress, the only thing i didn't like about it was the interface-- a more organized hotkey table plus possibly mouse support would ahve smoothed out the learning curve a bit more).

http://www.destructoid.com/elephant/ul/77691-romcheckfail.jpg

Would it kill these guys to use tile sets instead of ascii>?

Procedural games comp going on right now! Rom Check Fail is killer.

Some of them use tilesets. Even Dwarf Fortress, which I don't play, has a tile mod. Lots and lots of tile roguelikes.

I dig: IVAN and Lost Labyrinth, for beginners. IVAN has a moderate learning curve, but my ex got good at it well before I did, which indicated its overal doability. LL has a slow pace and is an acquired taste, but quite easy to start. Both of these are graphical from the outset.

Decker is a graphical cyberpunk roguelike with an unusual interface. Challening, but easy to start.

Also, DoomRL is great and beatable.

Roguelikes require a different attitude. They're sort of to be played at a slow, patient boil, like the old Mercenary games, except that they're not necessarily meant to be won, at least not in your first year or so of playing. The enjoyment is supposed to be in the play and irregularity. Omega, for instance, is fun even as a semi-broken, unfinished game. Alphaman is really crude but can also be a lot of fun.

I say "slow," but I should correct myself, because I rarely slow down unless I need to, I simply can't play so methodically without being bored. I mean that there are times to slow down and appreciate the creative act of game-making - my favorite games usually feature this, the fact that you can sense a voice in the creation rather than gloss or the noise of committee. Dying is often a little pleasure in roguelikes, or even relief, punctuation. You reach an apex and you start again from the bottom, which allows you to taste everything again anew. If you can't adjust yourself to see like this, they may not be for you, or you may want to look at some of the lighter (but no less polished or fun) roguelikes.

Rec.games.roguelike.development has a really slow pace and its denizens are open to newcomers, even if you're not programmers. It's probably still the best resource about roguelikes, probably better than any message board or website or r.g.rl.misc, although I have fallen out of lurking there.

Try 7 day roguelikes; some of them are good.

More RL recommendations as they come up, I guess.

IF, somewhat idosynchic shortlist: Blue Chairs (the maze is a pain in the ass), Rematch (a one-room game that's fun to play with someone next to you), Lost New York, 1981, 9:05 (these last two: ha ha), Frenetic Five vs. Mr. Redundancy Man, Zero Sum Game, Lock & Key (known as IF interpreter abuse), Galatea (Eliza redux) and Yes, Another Game with a Dragon!

Recommend reading Emily Short's game criticism (and playing her games); she's the best IF critic I've encountered. I don't know many IF authors by name: Em Short, Adam Cadre, Andrew Plotkin.

Website recommendations: baf's guide, Emily Short's page, ifarchive.org, xyzzy.com. It's good to try the xyzzy winners and runner ups, too, and a lot of comp games are really short and charming.

I lean towards short games because my taste for gaming has tapered off a great deal since I was 15, which has led to me reading about games or watching games much more than playing them (except a few roguelikes - they almost seem not to count). This has led me to looking into meta-IF and IF that stretches the rules of the genre. I like the gotcha moments. Your tastes will be different, though, so use the websites.

Also, I'm sure we all know right now that tigsource.com and the links on its sidebar are a sort of rabbit hole for independently-made games.

I thought this was going to be a quick, short post.

I've played Decker for a bit, found it too frustrating and dull to really get into.

It's dry, yeah, and unforgiving in places.

Before I go to bed, I want to add that Playthisthing.com has above-average commentary. I don't know all the best game blogs because, as Noodle Vague has had occasion to surmise, I am rather lazy when it comes to the Internet.

I second the Rematch recommendation, that game was very clever.

IF primer:

'Varicella' is what I'd recommend out of habit. Really funny, really smart, super-hard but whatever, there's loads to explore. Or you could start with 'Metamorphoses', which is nothing revelatory but so sweet and well finished that it makes a really perfect introduction. No-one else seems to like it much, so you could maybe skip it if you have played IF before.

'For a Change' has writing that's super special, dreamy and eecummingsy. Also it starts like this:
"The sun is gone. It must be brought. You have a rock"

'The Gostak' is one really, really aweome idea that's worth a play.

'Blue Chairs' has two of the most amazing moments in games, moments that aren't possible in any other medium? I don't know, it's flawed but incredible.

'Shade' is short and brutal.

'Phototopia' is Phototopia, I dunno, you probably have an opinion on it already. It's worth playing, anyway.

I don't think 'The Baron' is as clever as it thinks, but it's a fun way to spend 20 minutes.

'Lock and Key' seconded, nothing to do with IF but really fun.

Some people really like Andrew Plotkin stuff - it doesn't do too much for me but see what you think of 'Spider and Web'.

I have lots more (I like a IF a huge bunch obv).

Thanks bam for the roguelike tips.

I am writing a roguelike. I suppose we all are.

Those guys who made Barkley, Shut Up and Jam Gaiden made a silly roguelike based on the Wu-Tang Clan. I think they only spent a week or two on it, so it's nowhere near the epic greatness of the Barkley game, but if you're a Wu-Tang fan it's amusing for the starting character descriptions and awful midi versions of their songs.

I've been playing this. Has ever such a rudimentary computer game been so fun? Click click click.

"Fun" is probably the wrong word.

Moving into a house without a computer or TV will be very good for my health.

Haha. I actually got through 5 or 6 of those map squares before suddenly feeling incredibly guilty for wasting so much time on it. It is sad for us as human beings that it's actually an addictive game.

does babarageo save your game? i'm afraid to close the window and lose several hours of clicking

ok it's called ginormo sword actually

Yeah, it saves your game in a cookie or something like that. You have to click in the space between the title and the start game button.

And stop while you can!

This game is surprisingly long. I was grinding by beating bosses, but now I think it's faster to grind against rare enemies. I suspect that if I keep at it, eventually I'll just be whacking Yggdrasil over and over again for stat apples. Currently I've beaten 87% of the enemies, a light sword with 700 power, over 200 in each of the stats and more, and I'm still getting owned by the second boss on the last screen.

Anyone know how to beat the pixie? It just... won't... DIE

OK I found the solution by googling. It makes no sense.

I have a new Asus Eee PC and I cannot play crap on it. I can't figure out how to install Nethack and I don't have Java. No games.

Like Forumwarz, one of those crazy idea browser games that will interest you for a couple days, I've been playing PMOG. Install a Firefox add-on, get points for browsing websites and linking other people to them with "missions", get achievement "badges" for unique tasks (i.e. don't use Google for 24 hours or visit X site Y times a week), and other things.

my friend (goes by 3thd3m, sans googleproof) is really really big into that game and is giong to be on their podcast this week. I haven't been able to quite get into it yet.

'Varicella' is what I'd recommend out of habit. Really funny, really smart, super-hard but whatever, there's loads to explore. Or you could start with 'Metamorphoses', which is nothing revelatory but so sweet and well finished that it makes a really perfect introduction. No-one else seems to like it much, so you could maybe skip it if you have played IF before.

^^ the guy who wrote this game is a reference on my resume

I love the way I have to wear armor before reading this thread now.

defender in a favicon
http://www.p01.org/releases/DHTML_contests/files/DEFENDER_of_the_favicon/

This seems like a good thread for this:

'The videogames that will never see the light of day'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jul/17/it.games

that defender thing is crazy!

LOL Indie Games I've been playing recently:

PackRat:
http://apps.new.facebook.com/packrat/

Which is a CCG but without the game part. The icons/pictures are fun to collect though, and I play it cooperatively with my little sister, which is nice.

Skyrates:
http://skyrates.net

A browser MMO loosely based on Tail Spin. It's like a combination of Tail Spin and Tradewars 4k (from old BBS's). You fly around buying and selling product and buying new crafts. Also; RPG elements!

Governor of Poker:
http://governor.of.poker.fizzlebot.com/

A poker adventure game. Win poker games, buy houses, win cash games, buy towns, etc. It's really only fun because the opposing NPCs are well done. And it's really a pleasant diversion.

That governor of poker game's not bad, but alas I am much worse at poker than Bejeweled.

Man, I just won my first Governor of Poker tournament, now I feel like the shit.

I just won my lovely Governor of Poker horse and now I'm being asked for $20! I knew it was too good to be true!

http://www.remar.se/daniel/games/iji_screen1.gif
http://www.remar.se/daniel/iji.php
Have you guys ever tried Iji? Epic Metroidvania-ish action game. Tore through it over the last couple of days, pretty well done stuff. Very Amiga era, Out of the World-style graphics and cutscenes.

Also some of the Rush rip-off background music is amusing.

http://news.bigdownload.com/photos/best-indie-games-of-2008/1262870/

Good list! (except for Dyson, I don't quite see the hype on that one)

Anyone played The Path? It sounds like something that probably isn't worth $10, but I'm curious after all the hype, and that they at least made a cursory effort to port the game to Mac.

one of my friends is way into it

it sounds dark

Anyone play The Gutter?

This game is strangely affecting and beautiful and a total wreck:

http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/03/freeware_game_pick_imagination.html

Gave the VVVVVV demo another try, and it's all right, though I feel like it's a thoughtful attempt to do I WANNA BE THE GUY! as a commercial game - that is, insanely difficult masochistic platforming where you die endlessly. Terry Cavanaugh has some real brass balls charging $15 for this game. The chip music is excellent, though - I'm more tempted to grab that at $4 from the musician's site than the actual game.

I'm looking forward to Superbrothers: Sword and Sworcery because Jim Guthrie is doing the music

http://www.theindiebundle.com/

Machinarium, And Yet It Moves, Aztaka, Eufloria, Auditorium and Osmos all for $20. Includes the Mac versions! Pretty tempting, considering that's just the price of Machinarium.

I really like the path. V. good atmosphere and the slow pacing actually works really well for it generally. It's whole take on interactivity where you need to walk really slowly and actually let go of movement when you come up to a point of interest may have some sort of point to make re: interaction in games but it's actually quite frustrating in practice. Still very much worth a play.

really want to play vvvvv but can't afford it, am in the process of downloading the demo just now though.

Also has anyone played solium infernum? Looks like an incredible diplomatic backstabby multiplayer game.

I'm very up for Solium.

$15 is a 100% fair and reasonable price for an indie game - I don't really get claims it isn't? I'm not performing some sort of man-hour ratio calculation to arrive at the extraction of Arkahm Asylum it is; I'm buying it instead of Arkham Asylum because I think I'll enjoy it more.

I'm not saying there are no indie games that are worth $15 - there are probably plenty! But VVVVVV - while I'm sure there was hard work put into making it - doesn't stack up against those many many games with higher or similar production values, more gameplay time, and so on, even restricting it to that price point and not considering AAA games. If you think it's worth $15, that's your opinion, but I can't help but compare the game to stuff like Torchlight or Time Gentlemen, Please! when it comes to my gaming dollars (games I purchased for $5 and $2.50, respectively). VVVVVV seems like a better version of tons of similar free web Flash games - the demo is even hosted on Kongregate, as if to underline the comparison. To be fair, I'll admit to being a notoriously frugal bastard when it comes to buying games.

I would lvoe to play Solium but it is surely more expensive than $15, right? Like it's like $30. That's beyond my price range and not in the "there's no way it's worth that" sense and more in the "I think I should eat something this month I am now a student" sense. :(

http://www.kongregate.com/games/raitendo/passage-in-10-seconds

Blatant, but I loled.

o how i lolled

lol, Nhex, you're on ilx so no one's going to argue with you about whether or not VVVVVV is worth $15.

i really wasn't looking for an argument! just reacting to the demo.

Naw, I didn't figure you were. I was only referring to it being a big subject of controversy elsewhere (tigsource, Indie Games blog and elsewhere).

http://www.auntiepixelante.com/?p=540

http://neurohack.com/transcendence/design/Version1.00Announce.html

I remember playing this years ago, back when it was around version 0.6. Definitely impressive and fun, good look for a roguelike shmup. Can't believe the dude has been working on it the whole time.

From the maker of IJI comes HERO CORE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu_xdCHdSqg

Finally got around to trying it - pretty good. Not a huge effort over what's out in a lot of flash games (like that recent Auntie Pixelante one, for instance) but the effort is there - probably worth the short amount of time if you like Metroidvanias.

http://www.remar.se/daniel/herocore.php

Was going to buy VVVVVV w/o playing the demo now it's £3.49 because it seems exactly like the kind of thing I should love (I love the way it looks and sounds, and I spent my 80s playing the 2d platformers it makes nods to) but hot damn am I ever terrible at the demo. I think I'd rather pay £3.49 to watch someone who was actually good at it play it straight through.

Sorry, £3.49 on Gamersgate, £3.59 on Steam, no idea what it is in $$$ - $5 I guess?

it is $5 over here. i had similar feelings, though at the current price it's a lot more tempting to get compared to $20, though I'm probably still too bad at it to bother. really dug the soundtrack!

I beat the first level of VVVVVV and died 85 times (a little hard to get used to keyboard controls). Game seems pretty awesome! Glad I finally picked it up (and glad for cheap steam price).

So I watched a bunch of people playing on youtube and confirmed my suspicions that this game and I are just fundamentally terrible at each other (man am I ever going to hate the fixed-speed forced-scrolling sections, if I make it that far) but what the hell, £3.50 is like one drink in a pub, so I decided I may as well throw it at the programmer anyway

I really like the design and the music and the way it reminds me of 80s platformers (like Jet Set Willy, which I see a few references to in level design and room names) where rooms have multiple exits and join up in multiple ways and you feel like it's a giant open space and not necessarily a linear scramble from A to B - for me that is what really sets it apart from the Flash games it otherwise shares a lot with

Shd report back here and say that actually the difficulty is not super-impossible. OK, my death counter is higher than possibly anyone else who's ever played a game, so I am pretty bad at it, but I only felt properly stuck for about 10 minutes - the save points are pretty generously placed, so you can generally keep on moving forwards and whenever you start to think "man I am never gonna do this bit" you get a little further and further and then to the next checkpoint.

Plus when I redid the demo levels in the full game I'd already got a lot more comfortable with the controls, so they were already a lot easier and I picked up the trinkets I didn't have a chance of grabbing on the demo play. And in the full game the levels are connected by a giant open area with very few spikes in, so you get some more control practice exploring that.

So I got about an evening or two's play out of it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Maybe a bit short to be worth the original price, but definitely worth $5. Don't think I'll be going back and playing the bonus modes, though, cz they all involve a level of skill I am quite clearly never going to achieve. One of them offers a trophy for playing all the way through without losing a life! Hahaha. Yeah.

(Is it bad that a big reason why I bought it was seeing a room on a youtube playthrough named after a Guided By Voices song? That and the music, which is pretty awesome, as has been mentioned)

so, minecraft.

that's what i've heard, forks. haven't had a chance to try it yet tho

People are going apeshit for this game! I tried it for a half hour and I don't get it AT ALL. It seems like the "game" elements of it are pretty cosmetic, and people are basically just using it as a slow-motion, heavily obfuscated platform for creating 3D art. It kind of reminds me of Line Rider in that respect.

^ditto

Yo, nhex, if you like Daniel Remar, you should check out the ittle dew demo in one of his scrap packs. It has a lot of placeholder graphics, but the puzzles are great.

hmm? scrap pack? huh? linky

also follow up from 2010: VVVVVV was the shit. i still gotta beat that bastard

This is the scrap pack with ittle dew:

http://www.remar.se/daniel/scrappack.php

The second one has a hero core variant and some other stuff you might like:

http://www.remar.se/daniel/scrappack2.php

thx dude, will check out

Not sure if there was any talk about it at the time, but has anyone played Waves? Twitchy ball-rolling shooting coloured lights, sorta schmuppy but not really.Demo here (PC only):

http://www.squidinabox.com/

I'm playing with an XBox controller and its a blast, controls feels intuitive and simple but novel and full of depth (or maybe I just haven't played this kinda game before and loads of games control this well). They let you play with mouse+keyboard but I can't imagine why you'd want to do that.

Indie gaming serious sadness continues with Papers Please
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-08-09-papers-please-review
Cart Life was depressing enough, I'm not sure I want to do another one of these so soon.
Ironically though I find it fascinating that these games are so depressing and miserable. At the same time, I don't really need a simulator for that stuff, I already know how annoying it is to balance a budget and family concerns in real life. Still, evolving art form, etc.

http://www.puppygames.net/blog/?p=1574

Couldn't figure out which thread to put that it in. Classic PC/indie dev rant/publicity stunt!

that was terrible

https://kotaku.com/25-exciting-indie-games-to-wishlist-right-now-1848124335

Loads of interesting looking titles on there!