Herbie Hancock

When Bill Evans—we sometimes called him Moe—first got with the band, he was so quiet, man. One day, just to see what he could do, I told him, "Bill, you know what you have to do, don't you, to be in this band?"

He looked at me all puzzled and shit and shook his head and said, "No, Miles, what do I have to do?"

I said, "Bill, now you know we all brothers and shit and every­body's in this thing together and so what I came up with for you is that you got to make it with everybody, you know what I mean? You got to fuck the band." Now, I was kidding, but Bill was real serious, like Trane.

He thought about it for about fifteen minutes and then came back and told me, "Miles, I thought about what you said and I just can't do it, I just can't do that. I'd like to please everyone and make every­one happy here, but I just can't do that."

I looked at him and smiled and said, "My man!" And then he knew I was teasing.

there was a great thread on the Summer sounding Disco/R&B/Jazz corssover stuff that began with that incredible INCREDIBLE hancock album.

Mike: How much do you practice a day?
Herbie: Maybe 3 or 4 hours
Mike: Really, that's all?
Herbie: I had this piano student once, and the kid used to practice like 10 hours a day, but he STUNK!
Mike: Even practicing 10 hours a day huh?
Herbie: No, I mean he STUNK! The kid never took showers!

Survival of the Fittest (Arista, 1975). Essential as oxygen.

I wonder if Magic Windows is worth checking out, it seems to be in the same mold as this one.

I finally got Mwandishi, and I'm enjoying it a lot. The first track has a killer complex groove, whereas the second two are more slow and floaty, ambient even, kinda reminiscent of the Eddie Henderson albums where the Mwandishi band played. I realized that the reason I don't like Henderson albums as much as the Herbie ones, even though the players are mostly the same, is that Julian Priester is missing on the Henderson albums. His trombones gave the Mwandishi band the sonic deep end without which it doesn't sound quite as good.

Not into any pre-"Head Hunters" stuff, but I have been digging into some of his later 70s albums and there is some great underrated stuff there. "Thrust", "Man-Child", "Secrets", "Sunlight", "Direct Step". And, yes, "Mr. Hands" too. And the stuff from "Rock It" until "Perfect Machine" is of course ace, and his best ever. He has seemed to lose it afterwards though.

Btw. does anyone know if "Mr. Hands" (the title) was influenced by "Weather Report's "Mr. Gone" from a couple years before?

man...i really hated herbies last few albums....but i do love his 60s and 70s work. used to have manchild on a cassette and listen all the time. his solo on chameleon is so good

The newest one is pretty good I think.

Has anyone heard the hip-hop album he made in 1993, Dis Is Da Drum? Some friend of mine had it back in the 90s, and I remember liking it, but I haven't heard it since.

I'm sitting at home with a flu, and I just put on Lite Me Up, and today it's sounding really good to me. So well-mannered and smooth and nice. I guess some people would say it's lacking an edge, but why should all music sound edgy? I've been listening to a lot of early 80s R&B/urban contemporary exactly because it's often decidedly non-edgy and non-raw, and I think that's a perfectly valid and often interesting approach to R&B. As Lite Me Up proves.

Nice live version of Chameleon over at Destination Out.

http://www.destination-out.com/media/tracks/Hancock_Chameleon.mp3

Well then.

Let's talk about Lord Xenu, Ned.

A vision!

(I am rather glad I was wrong about him being a Scientologist, that had depressed me.)

He was/is a Buddhist, I think. But unlike many of his jazz contemporaries, I don't see that big a sprititual or religious influence in his music, he's always seemed rather down-to-earth.

Oh, I just read he won the Best Album Grammy this year. Congrats for him! Has anyone actually heard the new album, is it good? It seems to have gotten quite good reviews, but since I have little interest in Joni Mitchell, I hadn't really thought of buying it.

The River is close to great. It deserves a million grammys. or not, i don't know what makes an album the best album of the year ... but it is good -- even if you're not super into Joni, there's some great playing from Hancock and Wayne Shorter ... And the guest appearances are actually pretty solid -- Tina Turner brings it! It's certainly better than a lot of the latter day Hancock I've heard.

We really need to do a thread on his post-Headhunters, pre-Laswell electronici funk records with the vocoders and shit. It's like a whole world exists there.

Out of those albums, I think only Sunlight and Mr. Hands are really essential. (And even with Mr. Hands you have to be able to like its rather, er, soft 80s sound in order to appreciate it.) The rest of them usually have one or two great tracks, but the rest is not spectacular. I think Herbie was trying a bit too hard to appeal to the popular taste of that era, so the sound and the arrangements on those albums are often kinda too polished and neat.

the death wish soundtrack is pretty amazing, isn't it?

Mr. Hands is really amazing.

Recently got "Feets Don't Fail Me Now", and it's wonderful.

Barely a mention of Sextant? It's such a spectacular album that every so often I just put it on, sit down and go "wow" for 40 minutes. Back in school many years ago, I structured an essay on Macbeth around the opening track (I'd been reading the Wire too much and thought that tenuous connections were the basis for art criticism). My English teacher didn't like it much.

pretty sure if you look around ilx, there has been about a fuck-ton of sextant love

tenuous connections are the basis for artmaking
(xpost)

Death Wish SNDTRK rules, no doubt
(xxxpost)

Yeah, there's plenty of Sextant love on other threads. It won the Herbie album poll we had:

Best Herbie Hancock (As Leader) Album Poll of 1960s/70s/80s era.

And it was the only Herbie album to place in the ILM alternate 1970s poll:

TURN THIS MUTHA OUT! It's the Alternate 1970s Albums Poll on ILX — Results Thread

For me, it's pretty much favourite album of all time.

"my favourite album of all time"

blecch, this sounds awful (and I liked the river)
The Imagine Project
An all-star effort from Herbie Hancock -- like his previous record, a set that's filled with guest appearances from really dynamic range of talents! This collaborative change in Herbie's later years is a real surprise, and it's definitely helped him explore music with the sort of freedom to genre-step that he had back in the 70s -- maybe not as cutting edge as in those days, but still surprisingly strong at the core. India Arie sings on a version of "Imagine", which also features Konono and Jeff Beck; John Legend and Pink sing on "Don't Give Up"; Ceu is on "Tempo De Amor"; The Chieftains play on "The Times They Are A Changing"; Los Lobos and Tinariwen are on "Tamatant Tilay/Exodus", Dave Matthews sings and plays on "Tomorrow Never Knows"; James Morrison guests on "A Change Is Gonna Come", and Chaka Khan, Wayne Shorter, and Anoushka Shankar all appear on "The Song Goes On"

That sounds made up.

Yeah, sounds pretty terrible. I'm not sure why Herbie has been so keen on making these kind of "eclectic" all-star albums during the last years - is it just for the cash, or does he genuinely believe they're musically worthy? The tune he made with Chaka Khan on Future 2 Future was dope though, maybe their new collab is worth listening too...

yeah, you wonder how these things are put together? does his manager just say, oh yeah, Pink, she's like the new janis joplin and herbie's like "whatever"?

100%

Aren’t some of those available in pretty nice recent blue note editions? Tone poet or the classic series?

Paying for the unboxing experience

i mean i guess if you want a brand new mint copy for playing (on a rega with bamboo needle connected to headphone tube amp connected to beyerdynamic headphones etc etc) with absolute minimum surface noise this makes sense

on a broader level that mindset doesn't make any sense to me at all, but to each their own

That Gluck book contains lots of insights from the Mwandishi band members into the formation and dissolution of the group. Keeping the band on the road improved the music but was economically disastrous.

I've been listening to Bennie Maupin's second solo album, Slow Traffic to the Right from 1977. It's much closer to fusion than his debut on ECM, but still tasteful, without pandering to an audience who probably weren't going to buy anyway. He does slightly more funky versions of the two pieces he contributed to Hancock's Crossings.

"Nice box overall, a variety of authenticity issues with the reproduction jackets but overall an excellent set. Very happy with the pressings, *except* for Side A of the Piano, which on my copy has visible and audible pressing defects causing loud distortion making Side A unlistenable. Have contacted VMP for a hopeful replacement disc."

uh oh!

https://www.discogs.com/release/18471535-Herbie-Hancock-The-Story-of-Herbie-Hancock

I wonder what they would charge to just download it all as FLAC

haha hopeless

I very much doubt a repress will ever surpass an original sonically, also originals obv a better investment

I've never heard this soundtrack before today. It sort of bridges the gap between the Mwandishi stuff and the Headhunters stuff, mixed with his other soundtrack work to my ears
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xG8-7mY2Zs

That movie’s at the top of my to-watch list rn

I saw that movie about 3 months ago and I loved it. Truly radical stuff. It's the kind of movie you read about and think "great premise but surely it doesn't do it justice," but for once IT DOES DO IT JUSTICE!

Watching Hancock's episode of Elvis Costello's Spectacle after watching Smokey Robinson's, and it's wonderful to hear how both men had someone that was kind of looking out for them.

Robinson has two great stories about that: 1) First, Berry Gordy approached him after witnessing the Miracles' failed audition because he noticed they were playing unfamiliar songs (everyone else auditioned with well-known hits). Turns out Robinson wrote them - Gordy wanted to hear what else he had, and after critiquing his songs, he offered to mentor Robinson and show him how to write, which he did. 2) A disastrous rehearsal at the Apollo was saved by headliner Ray Charles because the Miracles didn't bring any arrangements, much to the venue's displeasure, and when Charles heard them getting chewed out, he stepped in and learned AND arranged their songs right on the spot.

With Hancock, he talks a bit about Donald Byrd, who hired him and later told him "you're ready to make your own album" and got him a deal with Blue Note while guiding him on what that would be like. Then one day he tells a skeptical Hancock that Miles Davis is looking for him and says "if Miles asks, tell him you're NOT working with anybody." Hancock doesn't think it'll happen, but he adds he can't imagine leaving Byrd because he's already done so much for him - he basically owes everything he has to Byrd. Byrd's response - "I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I knew I stood in the way of a great opportunity to your career." (Personal note, it may not be show business, but I've had friends who were screwed over by vindictive employers when they tried to pursue other opportunities - not out of greed but simply to work a salary that'll actually pull them out of debt instead of sinking further into it - so Byrd's explanation is all the more touching for that reason.) 30 minutes later, Miles himself does indeed call and ask "are you working with anyone now?" and Hancock says "No." Hancock then calls his friend Tony Williams (Hancock is 23, Williams is 17), and Williams says he got the call too. They're both elated and it's great how Hancock gets that across - you really get what it must've felt like for them when they were still so young and relative unknowns albeit gainfully employed.

I interviewed him a few years back and he spoke about this, and a bunch of other stuff too. He's a fantastic interviewee - hard to believe he's in his 80s now.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jun/24/herbie-hancock-miles-davis-told-me-i-dont-pay-you-to-get-applause

Thanks for the link Stevie! And yes, absolutely - I saw him a few years ago and kept thinking "he's the same age as some people I know back home and the difference in physical health and appearance couldn't be more different."

I genuinely think it's the Buddhism!

Apparently that all started with Buster Williams. They asked him how he managed to keep his energy up so high after long shows, touring etc. and that’s what he told them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AE-EabHu0U

This track is hot af

otm

As is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ttlYJeva7w

Came across this brutal takedown by Peter Margasak.

Gary Giddins's criticism is no surprise - he's always been very open about how much he hates fusion, whether it involves rock, R&B and/or funk elements. I didn't realize how much Margasak hated Hancock's post-Blue Note work. He doesn't mention Head Hunters by name, but I was stunned that he lumped that album into "the drop-off" after Sextant that is "so dramatic, so absolute" - personally, it's easily the '70s Hancock album that I hold in highest regard. (In fairness, outside of Head Hunters, I'm much more partial towards Hancock's '60s work as well. Between everything he did for Blue Note and Miles Davis, it would've been extremely difficult to surpass.)

One minor point - he doesn't go too much into detail about Hancock's work on Round Midnight for which Hancock won an Oscar (not a Grammy as Margasak writes), but nobody should mistake that as dilettantism, especially one driven by calculated marketability. For starters, it's an art film directed by a French arthouse auteur (Bertrand Tavernier) rather than anyone known for commercial work. The budget was $3 million which even in 1986 wasn't a lot for an international period piece. More importantly, there were NO film stars - Tavernier had to push hard to cast real-life jazz great Dexter Gordon in the lead role, and regardless of his accomplishments and talents, that didn't mean he was a box office draw, especially when he had very little experience acting in films. And Hancock knew Gordon - he even played on Hancock's debut album (by which point Gordon was already an established jazz great). In addition to Hancock's background in film scoring - going back to the '60s! - it was natural and more than logical for Tavernier to consider Hancock as the film composer. The fact that both Gordon and Hancock would be up for Oscars was kind of a fluke - nobody predicted that when they signed on for the movie.

I love Mwandishi and Crossings, like Sextant a lot, but something about the sound of Head Hunters repels me. Everything is now flanged and phased and the synth tones are nearly as bad as Zawinul's. I mean to listen to his next couple of records but my hopes aren't high, but not because "Herbie abandoned jazz" or whatever these sorts of critics say.

very offtm, you should go get that checked out

Like I said upthread I think the Bennie Maupin solo albums are better explorations of a more commercial sort of electric jazz.

Head Hunters’ version of “Watermelon Man” was on the jazz station when my clock radio went off yesterday. What a weird, funky way to wake up.

lol Margasak. When he was the Reader's music critic, and Rosenbaum the film critic, that was some peak '90s snobbery (bless em both).

I don't love Head Hunters either. That band improved on Thrust and Man-Child and especially Flood.

Head Hunters is incredible and I love how it sounds (so spacious even with everything that's going on, probably because everything is so dry), but it's a bit hard to hear after countless jam session versions of Chameleon and Watermelon Man. Still, Thrust >>>>>

Has anyone caught the current tour? I know I should go, I mean it's probably our last chance to see him.

Btw I just happened to read this about Round Midnight recently, a blog from Kirk Lightsey, who played piano for Dexter Gordon for a number of years:

Back in New York when Dexter was working on the movie “Round Midnight,” he didn’t call me for the gig. There was a pecking order and a placement in NY at the time. There were people in line for that gig before me. Herbie Hancock and Cedar Walton . . .. So many fingers. For the movie, of course, I had been playing for five years with Dexter, so I was on the list. But I wasn’t high enough up in the pecking order. For the movie or the pecking order.
https://www.coming-and-going.com/post/how-it-all-ended-with-dexter

His performance at Big Ears was full of energy and the band killed it (esp Lionel Loueke on guitar). The set was on the 70s fusion-y side. He even played "Come Running to Me"!

I can definitely see why some might find the Headhunters era sound offputting. There's something a bit shrill or nasal bout it btw the soprano sax and wah guitar and clavinet type tones. I'm only in the right mood for it sometimes.

In my experience Headhunters is one of those recs that ppl with no jazz experience REALLY enjoy (as opposed to say Kind of Blue where the response is much more dutiful). It’s got some bangin’ tunes and is v funky, I can understand why it’s a hit, I love it too.

it's news to me that anybody doesn't like the Head Hunters LP

seriously

It's definitely news to me that anyone doesn't like that record but likes Thrust and Man-Child. A take I haven't heard.

Hip-hop songs that sample tracks from Head Hunters > Head Hunters

smdh

some of you do not own any corduroy sportscoats and it shows

xps My partner's in grad school and sometimes gets student discount offers for various events around NYC. Hancock's Lincoln Center/David Geffen Hall show popped up as one last fall. I almost forgot about it until this past week when it showed up on our calendar and I forgot we maximized the deal by getting front row seats. I've never seen Hancock this close and it was REALLY close - the guy next to me joked it was like sitting in coach on an airplane because the stage was inches from our feet. So good - the only downside was they were allotted just 90 minutes and they've been playing a full two hours everywhere else, so the set did feel a bit truncated. (Hancock actually wrapped up the penultimate number after checking his watch and telling us through his vocoder that "I'm sorry but we only have five minutes left!") Regardless, if you've never seen them before (and my partner hadn't) definitely go, but FWIW, the setlist covers a lot of the same ground as their recent tours. At this point, I'd love to see an all-acoustic show partly to change things up.

synth tones are nearly as bad as Zawinul's

You should ask yourself if this is the genre for you tbh

Came across this brutal takedown by Peter Margasak🕸.

synth tones are nearly as bad as Zawinul's

You should ask yourself if this is the genre for you tbh

I'd venture that all the big fusion keyboard players sounded better on organs and electric pianos than synths, at least for a few years, which is one reason why I like the Mwandishi stuff best.
I don't feel the same about the big name prog keyboardists, who tended to be equally tasteful or tasteless whatever instrument they played.