Cars: Lease or Buy

I think the people who lease are motivated by one of these reasons:
*want to drive something nicer than they could normally afford--lease payments are typically less than loan payments
*concerns over maintenance are more important than money--in other words, if it's not under warranty/returnable, they want no part of it
*like driving different cars
*tax code differences
*hate haggling with dealers (lease payments are fixed in a way that car prices usually aren't)

also, Teeny OTM re: reasons for leasing.

If you're the type that consistently buys a new car every 2-3 years, drives it approximately 12K miles per year or less, and can keep it in good condition ... leasing may make more sense.

Me personally I'll stick with buying. Leasing does create the availabiliy of excellent condition 2-3 year old used cars with reasonable miles, I'd take advantage of that on the west coast.

I am becoming a real american, I now have a 45 minute commute each way to my new Factory. (Maybe not a REAL American if I'm building a factory). Before anyone says otherwise, moving closer would still require a car to get out of Rural/exurban PA to civilisation and I'm not quite ready for the PA country lifestyle in any case.

So I have to buy/lease a car. My experience of buying/owning a cars is that it is a royal pain in the arse and really I want buying a car to be as easy as buying a book on Amazon but thats' not to be and surely I will have to treat with some greasy spin of a car dealer.

ILX, what car should I buy? It should be fuel efficient, be a hatchback or a wagon, reliable and dull.

Also think about taking over the end of someone's lease, any pitfalls with that?

define "fuel efficient" first; what's the MPG you're looking for?

35 highway, bare minimum, I should be able to do better than that. Urban Mpg is less of a bother.

bubbling up to the surface are Mazda 3 and VW Golf TDI. I guess the Hyundai Accent, Chevy Sonic, Toyota Prius, Ford Fiesta and Focus should be in there. Audi A3 TDI would be ideal but there are hardly any used available.

I'm took foreign to get the tax credit on the Volt and plugging in at home is hard (not impossible).

I'm driving a Chevy Malibu rental right now and I dislike it, much more uncomfortable than the Hyundai I had last week and whichever american Numpty put in the driver's side seat belt put it in back to front so there is no way of wearing it not twisted.

you know you can turn the buckle around on the strap by folding the strap in half lengthwise, sliding the buckle over the fold and then unfolding the strap so the buckle flips the other way, right

hadn't though of that TBH

ILX, what car should I buy? It should be fuel efficient, be a hatchback or a wagon, reliable and dull.

I would say to test drive all of the ones you're thinking about, because it is such a personal preference type of purchase. If you're doing that much driving every day, you want to make sure that whatever you're driving is comfortable. I have the Focus and like a lot, the mileage is very good and there hasn't been any sort of mechanical issues in the 4+ years I've had it.

yeah, test driving is the key here, unless you're looking to narrow down your test drive pool

That's a good point, often with small cars I get reduced visibility because the driver's seat is low enough to get a decent view out the windscreen, fine most of the time but a pain in the arse if you are first in line at the lights.

I guess I'm really looking for, "Don't buy a ******, I had one and it was nothing but anguish and torment every day I drove it"

stick w/ japanese made, avoid us-made

more specific? don't buy a ford

This is 90s advice.

¯\(°_o)/¯

Aren't most cars, fundamentally, US made nowadays?

At least on-sale in the US.

Yeah, the non-US companies have assembly plants all over the South.

i test drove a 2012 focus and hated it. i'd put the honda civic on your list.

I drive a zipcar focus occasionally. it's okay, everything's electronic though, including the odometer, mph, etc. I don't really like that - really distracting.

yeah most cars are majority domestic parts and probably assembled here and Nicole is right. i still feel burnt on my experience with ford and would go toyota or honda nowadays

I hate the Toyota Yaris we got our daughter, but it doesn't quite fit the specs Ed listed anyway.

Civic would be great, no hatchback in the US. Insight has been OK when I got one on zip car, but if and Insight why not go the whole hog and get a Prius. Don't get so much of the benefit of having a hybrid when its all highway driving (highway milage is good all the same).

The Kia Forte 5 is at the top of my list when I go car shopping at some point in the next 2 years. I've already test-driven one and it's delightful. Kia and Hyundai both are about halfway to displacing Toyota and Honda at the Asian leaders in the US car market, and the reliability and quality of them has gotten so much better in recent years.

Anyway, this is my two cents...
http://i.imgur.com/djs5C.png

I have a 2002 Mazda Protege5 hatchback that I like, it's the equivalent to the 3 they sell now, but I think the engine is even larger now (2.5 l vs. my 2.0 l). I get about 24 mpg around town and 30 on the highway, so I doubt the current 3 will get 35 on the highway. Mazda has a "2" model now, maybe look into that one. A co-worker has a Honda Fit that he likes.

And small Asian cars are still made in their native countries as far as I know, it's the big ones thay make here (SUVs, Toyota Avalon, etc).

Two brand new inexpensive cars I'm liking at the moment are...

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/11q4/424154/2013-dodge-dart-photos-and-info-news-car-and-driver-photo-433267-s-429x262.jpg

2013 Dodge Dart - it's called a Dodge, but really it's an Alfa Romeo Giulietta chassis/suspension set-up. I heart the Alfas quite a bit, and it seems that Fiat didn't allow Chrysler group to screw it up. There's a lot included for the price, but I'm wondering how fit & finish will age over time. One thing I've never liked about Toyotas and Nissans is that after a couple years of average use, the interiors just look like rentals cars that have been beaten up.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/01/2013-ford-fusion-lead-opt.jpg

2013 Ford Fusion. Haven't seen too many details about the mechanicals except that it's borrows a lot from the European Mondeo. For a smallish mid-size car, I think it looks pretty good, but I think I'm just responding to the outright theft of Aston Martin's front grill.

I'd be wary about Mazda at the moment. They've had four consecutive years of losses and a couple months ago their CEO said publicly that they "are actively seeking a partner and/or exploring all options." Too bad, as the Mazda3 is a nice car and you can probably get a pretty good deal on it.

Since you're going to be in rural PA and dealing with winter driving, is it too much of a cliche to consider a Subaru?

the dart is cool.

subaru is a cool option, too.

instead of a fusion, you could get a focus, or even a fiesta, which would be less dowdy and a good 10 grand less for a well equipped model (leather seats + sunroof + shit like that).

but my choice out of what's been mentioned is the golf tdi.

ford edge just fits into the fuel economy requirements, too, i believe.

I really like the dart and the Multiair engine is a thing of wonder. Its an Alfa Romeo Giulietta underneath, but they've ruined it by not offering it with a hatch.

Subaru is a sound option although I didn't like driving my friend's outback, driving position is too SUV like. Fuel economy could be better but the Impreza is probably in the mix.

That Kia looks good, I've not specifically driven a Kia but every Hyundai I've driven has been comfortable and boring in a very well made and reassuring way, so I imagine the Kia's are similar. As you might have guessed I'm not really looking for excitement in my drive to work. I assume the Hyundai Accent is the same car with a different badge. Not quite as good gas milage as the Mazda or the VW but a hefty chunk of change cheaper.

i have a yaris and i like it! but it's like driving a kid's car and it looks like a jellybean. it does get 35+ in the summertime though. i get 40 mpg on the drive between home and parents' house which is 6 hours

Actually, scratch that, depending on engine and transmission it can beat the Mazda.

the Kia/hyundai that is

can you get yr hands on a skoda over there? highway mileage nearer 60 than 35 from my 02 diesel octavial

i like the mazda 3 or impreza. i don't think i will ever not have a hatchback. also there is toyota matrix, it has 4WD, which i would want in western PA

Toyota seems to want me to use a car to have 'Antics' with dodgy indie bands

http://www.uptheantics.com/

I need to think about this 4WD thing. I think I've been lulled into a false sense of security by the mild winter. On the one hand driving a FWD car can be a bit dicey in the Snow; on the other, do I want to lug all that extra weight around for the 10 days a year where I have to drive in the Snow?

I don't need a new car and I'm not going to buy a new car, but I want that new Fiat 500 pretty bad

in my fantasy world where I am still a teenage boy racer and I drive a lot and don't worry about peak oil, I would buy a subaru brz/toyota 86 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_86

vroom vroom

bought a ford fiesta last year, no problems, get about 37-38 MPG on avg. it's small, but I prefer that. I liked the hyundai elantra when I test drove it, if you are looking for a little more room + generous warranty.

I need to think about this 4WD thing. I think I've been lulled into a false sense of security by the mild winter. On the one hand driving a FWD car can be a bit dicey in the Snow; on the other, do I want to lug all that extra weight around for the 10 days a year where I have to drive in the Snow?

obv FWD is better than RWD re: snow driving (my folks had FWD cars in MN up until I was in high school) but AWD really will make a difference when you have an actual winter; I would not take this year as any indication whatsoever of what NE winter weather is like as it basically felt like we'd magically turned into Tennessee

This is typical SWPA winter idiocy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6249iHSJsKo

I had my taste of proper winter driving the previous winter and it has convinced me that people are fucking idiots when it comes to winter driving.

Are Chevy and Dodge still the most unreliable cars? It's been ten years since I've looked into buying a new car, but those two brands were given the kiss of death from Consumer Reports back in the day (along with a few others I can't remember).

Every Dodge that's been in my family over the last ten years has had issues, except the one I drove which went along just fine until the timing belt snapped at about 140k miles (because, oops! I'd forgotten to go in and have it replaced at about 100k). By that point, it was as much to fix as the car itself was worth. But I don't think there is a single Dodge made now that meets Ed's wishlist.

140k miles ain't too bad! You were pretty lucky I guess. My Honda Civic's transmission went out @ 65k miles (and I took great care of that car; no neglect!) so you never know what you're getting.

fwd vs. awd. i grew up on the frozen steppes of western canada, where 90% of cars are fwd (the remaining 10% are aging early-90s econobox awds, eagle wagons, dodge shadows, a very few subarus thrown in) and driven with all-season tires. i've found it very hard to get a fwd car stuck in the snow. add in winter tires + abs + modern traction control, i don't think awd should be top of your list but.

i've owned a string of awd cars and they're FUN. when i moved to the west coast, i bought an impreza wrx and nearly killed myself in it countless times on muddy backroads trying out sega rally championship shit.

we had a Focus when our car was in the shop and I couldn't stand it. Is my 2 cents.

that Dodge Dart looks like a thing I would want

we have a 4 year-old CRV and I like the room but it has no guts and I'm growing less enamored of it with every passing year

that was exactly how I felt about my Rav4... which led me to buy a BMW, lol

oo er

we kept our 96 Acura, and while roomwise it's a clowncar, I cannot overstate how delightful it is to drive something that responds with a VROOM rather than a delayed SCREEE when you floor the accelerator. I appreciate the Acrua much more now after driving the CRV every day.

I have a '12 hyundai accent hatchback & think it's great, zero issues after 6k miles, 35-38 mpg even with snow tires in the winter (though tbf much of that is highway).

we kept our 96 Acura, and while roomwise it's a clowncar, I cannot overstate how delightful it is to drive something that responds with a VROOM rather than a delayed SCREEE when you floor the accelerator.

^^^

we have a Prius. You have to gas it on Monday if you want it to pick up speed on Wednesday

I love that Dodge "Dart" too, but it's giving me cognitive dissonance. This is a Dodge Dart!

http://images03.olx.com/ui/6/83/51/1274686516_95708251_1-1972-Dodge-Dart-Swinger-2-Door-Coupe-Oc-Area-1274686516.jpg

(hope that's not too big)

true. love the old Darts <3

One of the best made American cars, I still see early 70s ones around.

my friend has a 67 Dart that I adore

I like the curved rear screen.

Does anyone have any views on the Lease vs Buy question? I'm tempted by leasing, getting to work is just an expense I need to cover, but given I will need to commute ~80 miles a day/20000 a year, lease costs may be prohibitive.

I'd say buy a 2-3 yr old car. How long will you be commuting?

Leasing is OK if you don't drive much and your financials are good enough that you assume that you'll always be making a car payment for the rest of your life.

FWIW, I know a couple people who have had excellent CarMax experiences and recommend them highly.

^ good advice. Everyone I know who's ever bought something at Carmax has relayed positive information.

I did a double take when I first drove by a Carmax dealership. I had no idea they had physical locations.

I like the idea of Carmax but the nearest locations are Columbus and DC.

i'd lean toward buying and buying new. 0% financing, 5 or 6 years on the loan, not bad....

yeah, if you can get that kind of deal, snap it up
leasing really sucks in my opinion

If you're in a credit union you can probably 3-4% financing. That and a 2-3 year old car is probably a better deal.

I have to see what I can qualify for, finance wise, I have a good job and nominally good credit rating but my history in the US only goes back 3 years. PNC has some good deals on loans, I have to see what I can get.

The key is to see it as an expense not an asset and make sure the loan payments stay ahead of the depreciation. used values are pretty good right now but who know how long that can last.

"but I want that new Fiat 500 pretty bad"

I know, right? I don't often do a double take when I see a car but I did when I saw this the first time

but then I saw a non two-tone one and thought it looked like a PT Cruiser so I'm not sure.

You guys do remember why Fiat didn't sell cars in the US for about three decades, right? They're shit.

The only reason I can forsee buying new is its the only way I'll ever get the color/option package I want. Pretty happy with my oft rain-soaked 14 yr old Miata that refuses to die, but yellow manual trans glass-roofed Veloster, I'm looking at you.

Leasing new is for those who willing to absorb first 3 years of depreciation (which ranges from 32-68%) and have nothing at the end. Possibly makes sense on some cars that don't depreciate as much.

New Fiat is hugely different from old Fiat. My parents had one of those pea green old Fiats in the late 70s and it was such a steaming pile. Wouldn't start above 80 or below 40. The former was no big deal but the latter was a problem in northern New England.

My wife wants the new 500. I'm up to try it but I'm not sure I'll fit in one comfortably. I have issues with little cars; my knees often hit the sides of the steering wheel or my head hits the roof. Can't comfortably drive a Prius, for example. Leg cramp city.

I used to drive an Austin 1800; my tall friends loved it, they never had to put the seat back. Acres of room!

I never notice new cars and even I noticed the Fiat 500. I'm actually going to be buying my first ever car in the next few months if things go to plan. Not sure what I'm after but I'm in the UK and want an automatic so my options are a bit more limited than for a manual. Toyota Yaris seems p good.

If the Fiat X1/9 came back (and was affordable, as it used to be), I'd jump on that.