Gay Marriage to Alfred: Your Thoughts

i think that is an awesome contribution morbz, huggles!

"Sullivan OTM. The dispirited handwringing at every setback is sorta not helpful. Time, demographics, and the equaninimity of the law are on our side."

not sure I agree with this. it seems to me it would be in our best interest to make it clear to the public just how hurtful and cruel these kinds of votes are, how they isolate one group of people and declare them less than equal.

i think the folks who best recognize this/don't care about it will be of voting age more and more over the next decade. history will show maggie gallagher and her ilk to be the "anti-irish/anti-black" political cartoonists of the 21st century.

it seems to me it would be in our best interest to make it clear to the public just how hurtful and cruel these kinds of votes are, how they isolate one group of people and declare them less than equal.

that's part and parcel with moving forward and continuing to launch ballot initiatives and legal challenges afaict

I'm just saying there's gonna be a lot of defeats. It isn't productive to moan about them. Learn from them, yes.

also lolz look at the people in that photo - do you really think they can be shamed/reasoned with. They need to be defeated by sheer numbers and by the due application of the law. You aren't going to change their votes by loudly declaiming how hurtful and discriminatory they're being.

true, but I think there is a much bigger group of people who vote for these things who really haven't thought much about it, who maybe don't even realize what they're doing to other people. these are the people we need to have discussions with.

it seems to me it would be in our best interest to make it clear to the public just how hurtful and cruel these kinds of votes are, how they isolate one group of people and declare them less than equal.

wait do you really think they don't know this? imho it would be more useful to point out that the more the gays get married the less they'll be out there recruiting for their lifestyle!

i think a lot of the voters are like some older relatives who just think, "well that sort of thing sounds awfully strange, i dunno about that..." and they're the types who may eventually come around and calling them bigots doesn't do much good imo. the right-wingers who are stridently anti-gay, let alone anti-gay marriage, you might as well just forget about them and not even bother to attack nor argue with their position.

well that plus a pre-election tv blitz promizing that "they will teach teh ghey to our children in the schools!!!"

which tbf i'd be fine with that so, y'know, let the slippery slope commence

i'm just saying look how well the whole "hath not a jew eyes" thing worked

Well, everyone reads The Merchant of Venice now.

Meanwhile, roffle.

herd gays don't always bleed if they get pricked tho

omar's assessment of the opposition very OTM, I think

on the upside, Maine did pass Question 5, allowing Maine gays to more effectively manage their grief and rage with marijuana!

if you prick them, gays will BLEED ON YOUR CHILDREN

hey yall,

say i wanted to organize something to donate money to the pro marriage movement, what would be the best org to donate to? i imagine some are more productive & effective than others

good question. I've been giving money regularly to the HRC and Equality California, but I'm not sure either one of those organizations has been particularly effective. I think Jesse Connolly ran an excellent campaign in Maine despite the bad outcome, so I look forward with interest to any campaign he signs on to in the future.

From Savage Love a few months ago:

My fiancé and I—we're a straight couple—are getting married in July. We've lived together for four years, and as such we don't need any more then we already have. We're asking friends and family to make donations to nonprofits that are dear to us in lieu of traditional gifts. We're both grade-school teachers, so the bulk of our requests are related to the needs of our students. (Shameless plug: Refugee Women's Alliance and New Futures are two amazing programs that specifically serve students where we live.) We're including Planned Parenthood on our list, and we would like to include a nonprofit that advocates for marriage equality. Which one would you suggest?

Soon To Be Married

Thanks for thinking of us, STBM, which is more than President Obama is willing to do: I would recommend that you put Lambda Legal (they're lawyers, they sue) and Freedom to Marry (they're advocates, they woo) on your list. Unlike most national gay organizations, Lambda Legal and Freedom to Marry do good work and get results. Thanks and congratulations!

If segregation legislation had to be passed by/could be overturned by referenda in the states many people would still be drinking out of different water fountains. ARGH.

Is this really a direct parallel? or is this again more of a federal vs. state situation?

HRC is a fucking waste of your $. Clueless "insiders" all the way.

yeah i gave to them once in a fit of protest at something or other, and then read enough about them to keep me from giving again.

Sullivan's been pretty good over the years of listing examples of HRC's sycophancy.

John Cole droppin' a truth bomb:

I honestly don’t know where the gay rights movement goes from here. There have been some recent successes- there seems to be some movement on DADT, an openly gay mayor was elected in North Carolina, Washington state passed a gay rights bill, Obama signed the Shephard legislation, the HIV ban was lifted, and some other victories in other states in recent years. At the same time, I understand (as much as I can) the anger and the frustration. They did the right things- they had bills passed by the legislature and signed by the governor, followed the legitimate political process, and unlike any other civil rights issue, laws are only temporary for gays and a year later it gets overturned in referendums. It has to be maddening, and I have no answers. About the only thing I can do is to stop being a jerk and openly taunting gay bloggers when I think they are doing something stupid or flailing pointlessly at the administration, because at this point I can’t think anything other than that they have every right to be pissed. I don’t know if it will work, but maybe the only recourse left for the gay rights movement is legitimate anger. Nothing else seems to be working.

The next step is to challenge the Maine referendum as being unconstitutional, IMO. (don't know if it will work but that's the avenue I'd try)

I also wonder if there is some type of organized boycott/protest re: refusing to pay state and federal taxes until this issue is resolved that could be organized.

Overall, 51 percent of voters said same-sex couples should be allowed to become legally married in the state, and 43% were opposed. But by nearly twice as large a margin, 56 to 41 percent, voters did not want the issue to appear on the ballot again in 2010.

^^^er that's in California, poll released today

i think marriage is pointless aside from legal issues but that's possibly more because i am without love than an atheist although both are true ;_;

It feels like once this gets settled and dragged through the courts and gay marriage or gender neutral civil unions are standardized everyone's going to be so tired of hearing about marriage that a lot of people won't see it as any sort of big deal in general. If all the anti gay marriage people had sucked it up and encouraged it but asked for church-by-church exceptions it would have a lot more of the mystique or whatever intact ten years from now.

Frank sez DADT to be repealed next year as part of Defense Authorization Bill

thought it said 2011

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1109/Frank_Dont_Ask_repeal_coming_next_year.html

Are same-sex couples better parents?

read it here, confused now tbh

http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=28029

well, the bill passed in 2010 is for the next year, i.e. 2011. Gov't doesn't exactly work on a pay-as-you-go scheme.

wait what? not from ur country btw jus so u kno

like getting snarky abt me not being 100% on how ur govt works seems pretty silly but then mayb that is how u roll

that's not really snarky though

But as an amendment, it could be made effective whenever they choose, Shakey, no?

not trying to be snarky! sorry.

Appropriations/funding bills are passed for each fiscal year, not on a week-by-week or month-by-month basis. After all, the gov't only collects income taxes once a year. So in 2009 congress approves all the funding for 2010, in 2010 they approve all the funding for 2011, etc. This is kinda a standard budgeting practice for governments, isn't it? And since the DADT repeal is being included in an appropriations bill that will pass next year, that means it will go into effect in 2011. But the bill will have passed and the law will have been repealed in 2010. Make sense?

x-post

But as an amendment, it could be made effective whenever they choose, Shakey, no?

well this is kinda true but what else would they amend it to? The defense budget is a bill that is guaranteed passage, no one's going to filibuster or vote it down based on this one amendment. Whereas if they amended it to some other random bill it might be more difficult to get through.

yeah i can see how in a large country like the US this would be a cumbersome move that would take up to a year to implement but living in a country with 4 million ppl I tend not to think of things like this, sorry for interpreting snark and thereby forcing this thread into digressions abt fiscal years :-/

If they do pass it as an amendment, they probably won't tie it to any appropriations schedule but set out a timetable to amend the Title 10 of the US Code.

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2009/12/no-doma-repeal-attempt-in-2010-and.html

That's good news. If you don't care about gay marriage. Which you don't.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/prop-8-backers-seek-to-block-federal-trial-broadcast.html

"Many supporters of Proposition 8 who are being dragged into this case are fearful about being questioned about their personal, political and religious beliefs on the stand and having that televised," Pugno said.

I kinda have a hard time generating sympathy for these folks..

fuck 'em

agreed