British Folk (and Revival)

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Also -- who's read Shirley's book, America Over the Water? I have. It's pretty good, interesting to hear about the Lomax recordings and Shirley's girlhood. Wistful in a way, too, since she was so young and impressionable.

I don't know of any comps, but I'm sure someone here could make you one.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Not "transform you into one" but "make one for you." Of course.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link

i know what you mean about the chops part. i recently got to see this guy jack rose play in philadelphia and he was so great. i guess he gets thrown into the new folk group. when i saw him, i realized that a lot of the stuff i have seen or heard associted with this stuff, while really good, doesn't have that killer musicianship that often comes with the folk territiry (something i felt jack rose had). i'm a really big devendra banhart fan, but have seen him three times now and don't think he or his band are particularly "amazing" in terms of chops (though i still love it anyway!!!). so far, the only bands i have seen that have that is jack rose, espers (they really do, that one girl who sings is such an amazing guitar player, the whole band is so great) and some guy i asw when i was living in california named nick castro - i wasn't into his music, but the guy was insanely talented.

peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

You can't really go wrong with that old "History of Fairport Convention" compilation - the one with the family tree on it. Shirley Collins' stuff is a bit varied for a concise comp.

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link

"There's so much attention being paid to so many strands of music right now, that the effect of the song is being diluted. This applies to a ton of the US free folk stuff. Everyone is discovering early 70s Japanese stuff, European free improv, the more obscure strains of Krautrock, and all this crazy private press English folk and psych, and before they've digested it, they've attempted to synthesize it in their output."

OTM! They want to run before they can walk. sometimes this can work. there is something to be said for youthful hubris and ambition. for me, the tower recordings might have come closest. they were always trying something new years ago and they could play. and they had good songs. i don't know, not everyone is trying to do the same thing, i suppose. they might be inspired by pentangle, but know that they will never be able to play like them. something good can still come of pentangle-love.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Doc, the forthcoming "Anthems In Eden" 4CD comp mentioned upthread, because the stuff I know on there is very good, and there is plenty of stuff I don't know. And it'll be avbout twenty quid, which seems fair.

Milkmaid, I bought the 4CD Shirley set because I was beginning to love her and I didn't have any of the LPs. Also it was £25 and that seemed the right kind of price to be paying. Plus it was a bad day and I needed cheering up. It's a very nice thing, but I'm not sure I'd want to invest if I had all the proper LPs.


Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I had a great 4 album brit folk/revival boxed set from the 70's, but i think i sold it. and i can't remember what label it was on. all the usual suspects were on it, plus old-timers. great informative booklet too with all kinds of history. i wish i still had it.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Scott - Sounds like "New Electric Muse" to me. A classic compilation. There was also a sequel, but I've not heard it...

Rombald, Friday, 16 December 2005 16:53 (eighteen years ago) link

The next one of the Gather in the Mushrooms series is out soon, which may or may not be any good...

A second helping of acid folk in its myriad, mystical and manifold forms from that great compiler and archivist of Britain's heritage past, Bob Stanley. Artists range from those wll known to the public at large (Donovan, Pentangle, John Renbourn, Roy Harper, Steeleye Span) across more traditional artists respected in their field (Shirley Collins, Sweeney's Men, Anne Briggs) to artists familiar to regular Freak punters (Mellow Candle, Mr Fox, Dando Shaft, Steve Tilston, Duncan Browne, Keith Christmas) and utter obscurities from the farthest-flung flodden fielde (Loudest Whisper, Shide And Acorn, Midwinter, Green Man, Stone Angel).

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:55 (eighteen years ago) link

What about for the live recordings, not even for that?

I think, for me, a lot of the focus is on the traditional material, the songs themselves. Hearing Shirley Collins and Jean Ritchie both sing "Sweet William and Lady Margaret" amazes me -- they're virtually the same, but the subtle differences (in pronunciation, phrasing, etc) are worth hearing side by side. Plus, it elicits a lot of crying.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link

I think an act needs to come along with the songwriting CHOPS to really do justice to updating the British Folk. Like some sorta Pentangle meets Sonic Youth band.

When I saw Espers, actually, they had one huge-ass jam part that sort of approached this idea, The rest of their set didn't really stand up, though

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:57 (eighteen years ago) link

yes! thanks, rombald. i will have to look for another copy. here it is here: http://www.popsike.com/php/detaildata.php?itemnr=4055345643

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:58 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah, i felt the same way when seeing them. also, from what the internet says, they are up and down as a live band. like either completely stunning and "best ever" or a bit messy and boring. i think i saw what might have been a "good" show, though they did struggle with some sound and equipment issues. the recordings are spectacular, though.

peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Sweeney's Men - Hall of Mirrors

... download this, people... and "Standing on the Shore"

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:02 (eighteen years ago) link

... well download it before Bob Stanley discovers it

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:04 (eighteen years ago) link

He's an archivist of Britain's heritage past, you know.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link

speaking of hipster icons, i still need to buy that Forest two-cd set. I don't have either of those albums, and i really dig that stuff.

band that could feel the folke vibe live really well (and can play their asses off): Ghost

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Sweeney's Men - from the Free State, fuck the Brits!

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:09 (eighteen years ago) link

(Milkmaid the live recordings are nice and in some cases great but I don't think I'd shell for a box set in order to own them. Mind, in me the Shirley love is not yet as extreme as it is in others.)

Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Ok -- thanks Tim! I have extreme, maniacal Shirley love. (You might be wondering, "If you're so maniacal, why don't you already have the boxed set?" I have no decent answer to that question except that I haven't been able to justify the purchase to myself.)

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Milkmaid - if you've not got 'For As Many as Will' yet, then run out and get it now! It's hands down my favorite of the Shirley & Dolly albums. Everything about it is beautiful (to me, at least)

Rombald, Friday, 16 December 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link

i remember years ago, musta been late-80's, i bought shirley collins CDs on a hipster tip, and i wasn't ready for them. too deep for me back then. whereas, you know, nick drake and sandy denny albums i loved immediately when i heard them back then.(i remember going to tower and buying five leaves left and the next day going back and buying bryter layter and then the NEXT day going back and buying the vinyl fruit tree box! same with sandy. i bought all her albums in a mad rush.) i even traded all the shirley CDs back. i dig that stuff/her stuff so much more now. i needed to grow into them.i never would have listened to half of the trad stuff i like now back then. not even stuff like caravan. *For Girls Who Grow Plump In The Night* has been on my hit-parade for months!

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link

Re: "For As Many As Will" -- Isn't it out of print? I've not been able to get that one. I sure would like to, though.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Caravan, wrong thread perhaps?!?!!?!

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Milkmaid - I've just checked the Fledg'ling catalogue and you're right. How unfortunate. :(

Rombald, Friday, 16 December 2005 17:27 (eighteen years ago) link

Oddly, I've been introduced to Shirley a few times over the last couple of years, just in a totally non-music everyday social context. She seems like a lovely lady, but I was far too polite to gibber about music to her. Think at one stage Revenant were keen to get a boxed set out - did that ever happen?

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:30 (eighteen years ago) link

I really admire artists who just give up when they think they have nothing more to say - tho I don't know if that's why Shirley Collins stopped recording or not

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:31 (eighteen years ago) link

The copy I have on CD is on Fledg'ling. Checking their current catalogue:

Fledg'ling records catalogue

It's not listed. Fire off an email to them maybe? What a great, great catalogue, anyway. Plus, I didn't realise "Power of the True Love Knot" had come out on CD. (x-post, gah)

[OK, I edited the URL so it's the correct link, not an "owned" jpg. GAH. Apologies]

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:34 (eighteen years ago) link

REALLY? You shook her hand? I emailed her once and felt like a total buffoon. She wrote back and was very nice and polite but I didn't know what to say. I've been hoping she would make it to the States to promote her book, but it's been a while now...

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:34 (eighteen years ago) link

Didn't really want to pry. Think she sort of lost confidence in her own voice though, for whatever reason. I actually attended a Bar Mitzvah with her(!), but she didn't sing at that either (it was all in Hebrew though). x-post

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Woah, just had this in my inbox:

SIMON FINN + GREGG WEISS
The Freebutt, Phoenix Place, Brighton BN2 9NG Tel: 01273-603974
Tickets:£5/4 conc. available on the door/ Rounder Records: 01273 325440/
Resident: 01273 606312
Authentic "lost" psyche folk legend plays gig to promote the reissue of his sole LP...originally released in 1971 , it was re-released last year and picked up on by such knowledgeable heads of class underground as David Tibet (current 93) and Thurston Moore. Has recently toured Europe with Six Organs Of Admittance. Slightly too dark to be pure hippy, slightly too thunderous to be pure folk, this is truly a rediscovery to look into...

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:42 (eighteen years ago) link

...although the last time I heard it, 'Jerusalem' was just a bit too much for me to take really.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm going to have to write them a letter, since I can't find an email on their site where the catalogue is. I see that Gemm has some copies, but one of the sellers is apparently not to be trusted. Where else can I look for it? (It = "For As Many As Will")

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Drop me a mail, and I'll run a copy off for you, if you can't get a proper one (be warned, I'm slow at this)

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link

BLESS YOUR HEART! We can discuss over email if there's anything I have to offer you in return! Best random Christmas present EVER.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 17:55 (eighteen years ago) link

"Caravan, wrong thread perhaps?!?!!?!"


yeah, i take it back anyway. i was trying to think of something that i would have considered too old-fogeyish to listen to in the 80's, but i liked a lot of that canterbury stuff even then. and other pastoral folkish prog like curved air and such.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Ha, how about the bit on "For As Many As Will" where Dolly sings a few lines? Too much!

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link

the massive shirley collins article that johan kugelberg did in ugly things magazine is recommended if you see a back issue. as is his huge meic stevens interview/article.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:17 (eighteen years ago) link

and interview (if you missed it):

http://www.furious.com/perfect/shirleycollins.html

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:18 (eighteen years ago) link

People who dig the softner, prettier Espers tracks might want to check out Mellow Candle's "Swaddling Songs" reissue- great Irish band from 1972.

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:57 (eighteen years ago) link

mellow candle iz hipster ground zero for the new kidz on the block. indie cred & crush being well over a decade long for swaddling songs and even pre-dating the large and in charge malkmus love when he would rave about it to anyone who would listen circa end of pavement start of solo. it's deserved. lovely stuff. thus began the one-album wonder oneupmanship that lives on to this very day. i'm still rooting for maryann friedman. perhacs must step aside.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I definitely file that Mellow Candle record as something that I would have been too fogeyish to listen to in the 80s! Same with stuff like Mr Fox. Good call though.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 19:23 (eighteen years ago) link

I think I might like Trees more than Mellow Candle (On the Shore album anyway).

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 16 December 2005 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link

it just dawned on me that the very same people who were turning me on to shirley collins in the 80's were turning espers on to the very same stuff later on. (philly is small like that.)

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 19:52 (eighteen years ago) link

[X- post]I really like "Heaven Heath" by Mellow Candle, but, for some reason, have never gotten around to hearing any more.

Yeah, the new Vashti Bunyan album has only two or three memorable cuts. As stated before; it's pretty, but also pretty unsubstantial (Maybe I'll get an e-mail from her, too!).
Still, I ADORE "Just Another Diamond Day" and her work with AC with all my heart.

Nathaniel (Horbgorbling Slubberdegullion), Friday, 16 December 2005 20:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Trees were great! People are pretty quick to call them Fairport clones, but I think they had a pretty unique approach. Great electric and acoustic guitar playing.

Seconding the Mellow Candle respect. Swaddling Songs is a gem.

Anyone here familiar with Fionn McCool (sp?) I read about them in a newsletter over the past year, and I can't remember where. Maybe Other Music? They were a 70s band who were compared to Mellow Candle.

I love this stuff!!!

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 16 December 2005 21:10 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008O33T/qid=1134772263/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-9110605-2015805?v=glance&s=music

introduction to British Folk Music of the 1960s, a fine two CD set.
Donovan, Bert Jansch, The Incredible String Band, Pentangle, et cetera

Wilhelm, Friday, 16 December 2005 22:33 (eighteen years ago) link


My favorite example of Bert Jansch's sound is Jack Orion -- it's got his usual rootsy celtic-blues sound applied to trad songs, which are better than most of Jansch's originals. Sui generis until Liege and Lief

The Oysterband are also not bad, Freedom and Rain with June Tabor is quite likable.

theo, Friday, 16 December 2005 23:06 (eighteen years ago) link

no sufjan, no credibility.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 16 December 2005 23:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Some interesting folk artists from that era:

NICK DRAKE
BRIDGET ST. JOHN
MIDWINTER
STONE ANGEL
TIR NA NOG
JAKE HOLMES
ERIC ANDERSEN
KAREN DALTON
LINDA PERHACS
JUDEE SILL (reissue this year)
AGINCOURT
FLESH MAGGOTS
ANNO DOMINI
MAGNA CARTA
COMUS
SPIROGYRA
BARRY DRANSFIELD
DAVID ACKLES
BILL FAY
DAVID BLUE
TOM RAPP & PEARLS BEFORE SWINE
STEVE TILSTON
NICK GARRIE
GARY HIGGINS (reissue this year)
AMAZING BLONDEL
SPRIGUNS OF TOLGUS
GRYPHON
NUMBER NINE BREAD STREET
RICHARD & MIMI FARIÑA
TIM BUCKLEY
ARLO GUTHRIE
TOWNES VAN ZANDT
PHIL OCHS
JONI MITCHELL
JOHN RENBOURN
KATE & ANNA MCGARRIGLE
THE YOUNGBLOODS
FLYING BURRITO BROTHERS
MARTIN CARTHY
TOM PAXTON
FRED NEIL
CAT STEVENS

antonio, Friday, 16 December 2005 23:23 (eighteen years ago) link


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