Steely Dan C or D?

"Reelin'" isn't a favorite either. "Do It Again" (which I thought for years was a really sexy Santana song my parents never told me about), sultry and mysterio-so, is lots better.

only a fool would say that

is my favorite song.

I think my favorite Sopranos moment of the whole series is Tony driving away from his house, being followed by the FBI, on his way to do some bad shit, singing along to "Dirty Work" (which is my favorite song on Thrill - either that or Only a Fool Would Say That)

"Do It Again" (which I thought for years was a really sexy Santana song my parents never told me about), sultry and mysterio-so, is lots better.

weird! I totally thought that was a Santana song, like forever! haha

I really like "Reelin'"... also "Dirty Work", "Kings", "Fire In The Hole"

haha yeah...I didn't hear that song among my dad's Dan records growing up (he had mostly the later albums and Gold, which it isn't on for some reason), so there were about 10 years were I thought it was by Santana, and then another 10 years after that where I still thought it was Santana every time I heard it until the vocals came in.

also lol @ the idea of Alfred's parents saying "son, there's this one Santana song that really gets us in the mood that we'd like to tell you about"

I grew up with Santana! "Do It Again" was a hit around the time that Santana was HUGE, and its rhythms are similar.

oh yeah, like i said, i totally made the same mistake myself many times.

i feel strangely comfortable to feel that I'm not the only one who labored under that misapprehension

lol, and my dad also totally loved that song, like in the sense of he would crank up the car stereo's volume when it came on. my dad sorted me with some good music, all things considered...wow

add me to the list who thought it was santana as a child

i've been listening to Thrill and some stuff I'm pleasantly surprised with ("Change of the Guard"), but a lot of it are these 'anonymous' bad 70's songs that I'd hear on classic rock radio for years ("Dirty Work", "Do It Again", "Reeling"), and wonder who these awful artists were. Now I know, they're all probably Steely Dan.

Will continue listening.

Dude, you like Belle and Sebastian.

I think our collective confusion arises from the fact that Juelz Santana has a song called "Do It Again."

Dude, you like Belle and Sebastian.

I never said that, but thanks for that crude pseudo-insult. Regardless, I do find much more to like about Belle and Sebastian than I do about Steely Dan. Belle and Sebastian are probably one of the few bands from this era that people will still be talking about a couple decades from now.

hey I like B&S too!

altho who gives a shit what people will be listening to decades from now, that's a meaningless barometer of quality

it's sad that it has to come down to lame ad hominem attacks when someone says they don't really care for Steely Dan. I didn't attack anyone personally here.

altho who gives a shit what people will be listening to decades from now, that's a meaningless barometer of quality

I see what you're getting at, but I think I would disagree that it's meaningless. I wouldn't necessarily search out stuff simply by trying to figure out whether it would be remembered years from now, but I would argue that the best music has a timeless quality.

Argh, too hard to describe this without writing a treatise, and i don't have the time for that now.

nothing is timeless

I like Belle and Sebastian. You haven't said anything in this thread about Steely Dan that hasn't been applied to B&S a billion times, except maybe the smooth jazz line. I was just surprised and amused cos I thought you must be angry metal guy or something. Seriously, it's fine not to like a band. It helps if you're criticisms aren't ill-informed groundless bollocks tho.

my love is timeless

And if you think "I would argue that the best music has a timeless quality" is a sensible argument, well, here you are on a thread of people loving 30-odd year old albums. Would you like me to hand you your petard or can you hoist yourself?

I know there was a time in my life when I hated the sound of Steely Dan. I have a vague memory of once listening to Katy Lied because I thought the insect picture on the cover looked cool and turning it off almost immediately. It just sounded "old" in lots of ways - that slick '70s sound seemed very dated. The music was kind of a beige blur - too slow, too mellow, too smooth - not very exciting. It was pretty much the opposite of what I was looking for in music at that time: speed, energy, volume, rough-edges, noise, passion. I wanted music that was defiantly and joyously ugly, not music that tried so hard to sound tasteful. There was something almost embarrassing about how studiously well-behaved it was - like someone who always kisses the teacher's ass in school. It was just too grown-up sounding, I guess.

^^^^yeah, me too.

I snapped out of it.

how many fuckin "Steely Dan offends my indie sensibilities"/"Steely Dan used to offend me indie sensibilities"/"Steely Dan roolz u r all corny indie fux" exchanges are we going to have on this board?

To me it's understandable to only want to listen to music that's in some way aggro when you're 16, but people who do that usually end finding all sorts of justifications for stuff that most people would think was pleasant or mellow or pop.

I snapped out of it.

Yeah, it took me a while. Much later I tried again. Listened to "My Old School" - hey, I thought, this isn't bad. Then all of Countdown to Ecstasy. Some good tunes on here. Then Can't Buy a Thrill. Still had a bit of trouble with Katy - but after a while started to hear the songs behind that slick '70s sound. And so on.

Belle and Sebastian are probably one of the few bands from this era that people will still be talking about a couple decades from now.

Different strokes different folks I guess, but B&S are still around, and I was a fan in the late 90s, and I stopped caring and talking about them in 2000.

Although the idea of Steely Dan using the B&S aesthetic for their album covers is LOL -- maybe.

I snapped out of it.

^^^ same here, thanks to the help of a hand-me-down copy of Aja and um, pot.

Although the idea of Steely Dan using the B&S aesthetic for their album covers is LOL -- maybe.

I think you mean the SMITHS aesthetic

(sssssh)

(and yeah I stopped caring about B&S around 2000 too - altho I still break out If You're Feeling Sinister now and again, that's a solid record)

(also I think the B&S aesthetic is a bit duller than the Smiths aesthetic when it comes down to the details of the photograph selection)

why u posting in the steely dan thread then dummy

Something wrong with a little dissenting opinion?

(also I think the B&S aesthetic is a bit duller than the Smiths aesthetic when it comes down to the details of the photograph selection)

very true - pomo celebrity selection vs. dumb pictures of friends/bandmembers

And if you think "I would argue that the best music has a timeless quality" is a sensible argument, well, here you are on a thread of people loving 30-odd year old albums. Would you like me to hand you your petard or can you hoist yourself?

fair enough. regardless, i doubt that there's anyone here who has studiously deconstructed the rationale for their apparent tastes, and have come up with anything that some anonymous dude on a message board couldn't punch a hole right through

guys I think that was a challenge

It's the "rationale" that's a mistake. That and thinking that there are objective aesthetic qualities that reside in art above or beyond context.

i.e. fat middle-aged perma-angsty dude on the east coast of England listening to Dan in 2008 on a Friday afternoon after work is not hearing the same Dan as an imaginary 16 year-old Californian listening to the radio in 1974.

^^^bringin it

ultimately we must understand that as humans we are composites of our inscrutable quirks, irrational beliefs, and non-logically formed opinions. therefore, it's somewhat pointless to argue in this "gotcha"-style fashion that relies on the deconstruction of words that were articulated to rationalize an opinion that didn't come from a place of logic in the first place.

IF IT IS POINTLESS TO SO ARGUE THEN STFU

also please don't use "deconstruction" to mean "close examination"

I used to really like Steely Dan. Now I like them more

res I'm not trying to trip you up or mess with you now, honest. A bit upthread, yeah, but disagreeing with somebody's opinion ought to be fruitful cos it makes us see the flaws in our own. I'm not quite saying "there's no disputing about taste", either. I think there are loads of ways you can interestingly think about and disagree about music. I don't think arguing about the music's status as being "above" subjectivity is one of those ways, really. What makes people like Steely Dan, as an example cos this is the thread we're on, might be a bunch of different qualities. Different for different people. Saying those qualities aren't there or are rubbish feels self-defeating because the refutation happens as soon as one person steps up and says "no, I like that".

Anyway, pub time, no aggro intended. Peace.

They got the house on the corner
With the rug inside
They got the booze they need
All that money can buy
They got the shapely bods
They got the Steely Dan T-shirt
And for the coup-de-gras
They're outrageous

Show biz kids making movies
Of themselves you know they
Don't give a fuck about anybody else

I don't think arguing about music has to be pointless, although it certainly can be. Sometimes someone else's argument will allow you to hear something in a new way. Reading about how someone else appreciates something might open up a new avenue for you to appreciate it. I think that's what some people upthread were doing by trying to call attention to the deliberateness of the slick Steely Dan sound and how they might have been deliberately going for a soulless plasticity in order to complement a song about alienation. Personally I don't buy that argument. I think Steely Dan worked so hard to get that sound because they think it sounds good, and I don't think it was in any way an ironic pose. But for some people, maybe they appreciate it more if they hear it that way.

I think its a bit of both and that the push and pull between the two is one of the things that makes them really interesting - arrrgh I really wish I could find that Fagen interview, it was relatively recent (he also explains the inspiration for My Old School and who Rikki Don't Lose That Number is about)