is Karma by Pharoah Sanders the best record ever?

I'm really hoping that's not one of these: Britney's cover of Funkadelic's "Red Hot Mama"

I already mentioned it upthread. It's a okay version, but not as awesome as it sounds on paper. I think it ends a bit abruptly and too soon, and Satchmo doesn't really put much effort into it. The reason this version exists is that Armstrong and Leon Thomas were both on Bob Thiele's label, Flying Dutchman, at that time. I think it was Thiele's idea to have Satchmo record it.

Sorry, didn't scan the thread, and sure hadn't heard it. Neat little curio.

No problem, now others get to hear it too.

I think Thomas's own solo version of it on his debut album is clearly better though, as fun as it is to hear Satchmo on this version.

Thiele was an interesting cat, "discovered" Buddy Holly, married to Theresa Brewer, had song written about him by George Coleman's wife, Gloria, called "Funky Bob." Think he maybe wrote some songs himself.

Also, in Thomas's version you actually get to hear the verses too - even though the verse lyrics were printed in the liner notes of Karma, they aren't sung in the Pharoah version (nor in the Satchmo version).

(x-post)

xxpost I think Thiele wrote "What A Wonderful World" of all things. Or am I thinking of someone else?

I think so, yes.

No, that's exactly right. (xp)

And I just checked, his wife's name was Teresa, no 'h.' Although she was born Theresa Breuer.

I've got to pull out that Ashley Kahn book about Impulse.

Wikipedia says:

Some of the songs Thiele wrote, for example "What a Wonderful World", are credited to George Douglas or Stanley Clayton[2]. These are pseudonyms Thiele used, made from the names of his uncles, Stanley, Clayton, George, and Douglas.

Btw, Leon Thomas's albums on Flying Dutchman are all more or less great, and everyone who digs his collabs with Pharoah, or soulful jazz in general, should check them out.

Just been thinking about Pharoah and Sonny Sharrock because of that No Guitar Solo threads and how those two guys had the abiility to consistently solo from a deep place and not just be filling/making time.

Thanks for the reccs, Tuomas - never heard those Flying Dutchman records of Leon Thomas'. Will track 'em down!

In the liners for the new Coltrane box set, Bob Weinstock disses Thiele and Impulse for stealing all of his artists after he made them big. From what I've read, though, Impulse paid their artists waaaay better than Prestige.

The first two (Spirits Known and Unknown and The Leon Thomas Album) are especially worth hearing if you like Thomas's collabs with Sanders, as they're quite close to that sound. Sanders even plays on SKaU. The third and fourth albums (Blues and the Soulful Truth and Full Circle) are probably closer to soul than jazz, but they're still pretty great - especially BatST, which IMO is one of the finest sould albums ever made.

(x-post)

literally dying for him to come play in the uk. last shows were in 2008 and i was totally un-sanders-revelated back then.

he's notoriously patchy/indifferent live these days, sadly - obv dude is pretty old now, v. hard to sustain that kinda blowing intensity. in the uk he was adopted by the acid jazz crowd, thanks mainly to some of his more funky 70s/80s tunes, and he generally plays the jazz cafe in london w/ frankly mediocre backing groups that are not well-versed in free/fire music. i guess what im saying is, just don't expect the jazz composers orchestra if you go see him

Anyone have any idea who 'For Big George' from 'Shukuru' is about?

Could be Big George Brock, who settled in St Louis, where the song's co-writer Leon Thomas was born. If I could figure out a better way to put that, I wouldn't, because I'm writing from my phone.

Cool, that makes sense, thanks.

This is awesome - Louis Armstrong (w/Leon Thomas) sings "The Creator Has A Master Plan", with arrangement by Oliver Nelson:

http://destination-out.com/?p=474

― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:44 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

(if not, that is ok, I will just keep ~vibin'~ to Karma)

Here you go!

I have it on my home comp, I can upload it once I get home. IMO it's not as awesome as it sounds on paper, though it's not bad or anything. I'd recommend checking out Leon Thomas's solo version of "The Creator has a Master Plan" that appears on his debut album... That one is awesome, and you can hear all the verse lyrics that were printed to the album sleeve of Karma but didn't appear on the Pharoah version. The rest of the album is great too, and Pharoah plays on it.

(x-post)

Well, I guess I don't have to upload it, then.

dang, i've slept on Shukuru. i used to see it all the damn time, but passed because of the year. title track is beautiful. rest is good?

was just reading about how pharoah doesn't like this album because the engineer didn't put his sax higher in the mix! which seems weird.

(i mean, his sax sounds pretty loud on it, doesn't it?)

It's maybe more restrained than most of his stuff, but that has nothing to do with volume. 'For Big George' sounds oddly...Scottish. Lovely piece.

has it been mentioned that tauhid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> karma?

ha, mayyyybe. but i might say jewels of thought is better than both of those!

That Armstrong cover of "Creator" is cool but also kinda sad.

Karma might not be "the best" by some sort of technical standards, but emotionally, for me, it's the best. Always always always inspires me. Mother nature seems to love us.

Saw a large Armstrong bio in a charity shop today, but then noticed it was auf deutsch. :(

feel like "Karma: Classic or Dud?" might come down to where you stand on "Colors"

(I used to think it was kinda cheesy... like, the first two times I heard it. then I realized it was fucking awesome. because it is.)

I haven't listened to Jewels in a while; I remember "Hum-Allah-Hum" but am blanking on what "Sun In Aquarius" sounds like

I love Live At The East almost as much as I love Karma.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwl55i6VDrk

Has he really not cut an album since 2003?

no, i don't think so. any reasons why?

It's got soul, man. And some heavy metal sax.

I listen to this every Thanksgiving during dinner. It's the best tradition!

i can't believe izipho zam is still unavailable

listened to that earlier! it's all pharaoh all day here.

last pharoah i listened to was live at the east -- so good! that is weird that izpho zam is out of print. that one rules too.

Prince of Peace from Izipho Zam has become one of our holiday season tunes over the years. Great album. Speaking of maddening OOP Sanders, why can't I find "Harvest Time" anywhere? I love that record.

Speaking of Izipho Zam, I have a Leon Thomas compilation that includes the version of "Prince of Peace" from Izipho Zam, and at least on that comp it has a very obvious and irritating sound glitch towards the beginning of song. I've never gotten Izipho Zam because of the high price you have to pay for it, but can you who own the album tell me whether this glitch is there too?

High price on vinyl you mean? I got a CD of it for like £2 or something.

No, these days I think you can actually get it cheaper on vinyl than on CD. AFAIK it was reissued on CD in Germany in the early 90s, and the only CD reissues after that have been in Japan, so even the cheapest used copy I could locate at Amazon is 24 quid.