― geeta, Saturday, 18 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Saturday, 18 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Frank Kogan, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― geeta, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Geeta, you must seek to get your hands on a copy of Frank's zine Why Music Sucks. As Ned might say: it is good, oh yes.
(Frank I've decided that I owe you a Mix CD - how does that sound?)
― Tim, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I'll have to second that, and I still have yet to read a word. ;-) Chuck Eddy mentions Frank and WMS prominently at the end of Stairway to Hell, and I now curse myself for never writing away to the address listed there all those years back. I've missed years of good thoughts, musical and otherwise, as a result.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
it was about decadence and iggy pop's penis.
― minna, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark "the s is for insecure" s, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― minna, Thursday, 23 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Tim - I've always wanted a mixtape but was too shy to ask. Address is Frank Kogan, PO Box 9761, Denver CO 80209-9761 (the addresses listed in the back of the Eddy books have long since been abandoned; this one won't last forever either, I don't think).
People actually interested in WMS should email me rather than sending $$$ to the address, since prices vary depending on where I'm sending it and which issue I'm sending.
― Frank Kogan, Friday, 24 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Minna I'm delighted. Thank you.
― mark s, Friday, 24 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
yrs bll
― Bill Routt, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Oh, you could say something about Simon Reynolds's writing, which almost no one on this thread actually did except in the vaguest terms. Like, open a book, read a page, say something about it.
― Frank Kogan, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Also, if you want to be taken seriously, its best not to identify yourself as a tool.
― Sterling Clover, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
the 'plateau' idea that reynolds uses from time to time (not always in those words) seems to me v. useful and pretty close to whatever d. and g. mean by it. EVEN BETTER, d. and g.'s source, gregory bateson, means something v. useful and interesting by it, well applicable to dance music, moreover rap, a-g stuff, indie rock, all kindsa things.
the 'desiring machine' stuff is not v. well developed so it's hard to tell if reynolds' use of it accords with d. and g.'s (whatever the hell that is exactly). my suspicion is that r's use doesn't show any deep understanding of d and g's, but it's along the right lines.
― Josh, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 26 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Josh, Sunday, 26 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
So let's try the other thing. I just happen to have a copy of History of Shit on my bookshelf, and I'll open it at random ...
"The individuation of waste, which enjoins all 'to hold and retain matter within their homes' comes attached to a moral homily: it serves as the 'raw material' for a fable whose hero serves a calendar in which singing and dancing days are always a year away."
Surely no one here can fail to see that this is a devastating description of the music critic and of how music criticism actually works (instead of the way our late capitalist society pretends that it works). For example, here we are reading this 'matter' when we could be out dancing, like Simon Reynolds always claims to be. The point is that HE is the 'hero' described in the quote and music criticism is the 'fable'.
See. It works.
― bll, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Saturday, 1 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― cuba libre (nathalie), Saturday, 1 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Frank Kogan, Saturday, 1 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― bll, Thursday, 6 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― DeRayMi, Thursday, 6 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I just spent the last half hour reading this thread. Extremely interesting.
Can somebody please explain to me who you people are? Is I Love Music a university thing?, a profession guild, how did you people find one another?
Anyway.
I have done some compiling over the last months and I want you to check out some of my pages:
http://www.jahsonic.com/SimonReynolds.htmlhttp://www.jahsonic.com/GillesDeleuze.htmlhttp://www.jahsonic.com/DavidToop.htmlhttp://www.jahsonic.com/GeorgesBataille.htmlhttp://www.jahsonic.com/GreilMarcus.htmlhttp://www.jahsonic.com/BlackScienceFiction.html
see other thread to read my introduction
Kind regardsJan Geerinckhttp://www.jahsonic.com
― Jan Geerinck, Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
greil marcus in particular distinguished himself recently when he posted this thread:
YOU SAD BASTARD! Carter Reconsidered Tom Ewing, September 2002
― Emmanuel Goldstein, Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
and emmanuel is a troll. but a loveley and kind troll :-)
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 1 November 2002 05:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
It's almost too much -- the sustained invocations and praise thrown at every bit of every scene, the compulsive political readings and most importantly the accumulative aspect -- each chapter each twist builds on the one before and the fractures get more subtle and complex at once. Most troublesome is that Reynolds ties each change into the social landscape of region in question, but honestly it moves a bit too fast. I mean he's talking about how certain cultural features came to dominance in '93 thanks to unemployment, etc. so what are we supposed to think -- that the U.K was a bundle of peaches and cream until '92? His criteria for class relations, social change, etc. all seem too confined and limited in their scope. Meaning becomes too hermunetic and cloistered by this -- which is itself the dancefloor moment I suppose.
So thus probably the most thrilling part is how he builds and destroys the arguments for and vs. each twist and turn of genre-fracture being the one to liberate mankind bring peace freedom harmony and lemondade oceans. The experience of stepping in and out of the dancefloor, coming up and coming down and worrying and arguing over where next, the immediacy of local change in a minute twist of culture like Douglas Adams' fantasy from his Dirk Gently novels of an alternate reality tuned into by just twisting slightly sideways through a fourth dimension.
Plateau does seem an appropriate metaphor -- discontinuous sheets of social interaction each projecting itself forever into the past and future.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:39 (twenty-one years ago) link
lemonade oceans? ew.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 31 March 2003 21:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 31 March 2003 21:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 31 March 2003 21:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 31 March 2003 21:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 31 March 2003 21:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
Perhaps the search for what gramsci terms the "historic bloc" where the entirety of the apparatus of society -- economic roots to most advanced ideological exposition and esthetic appreciation -- becomes harmonious, the real is rational etc. The dialectic of flight from dialecticism, heh.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 02:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
to Sterl's points, yes Energy Flash/Gen E is action-packed, it covers 10 years of a transglobal subculture and ten years of its prehistory--not even a subculture reallly, more like an alternative mainstream --it moved fast and it mutated wide. any individual artefact or sub-scene within it could be looked at through a host of prisms -- its relationship to the rest of its genre; the genealogy of that genre; the artefact's relationship to the broader pop culture; its relationship to changes in technology; to changes in drug use; its relationship to society. And probably several more prisms. even the biographical prism occasionally with someone like goldie basically telling his lifestory through breakbeats and wussy synth-washes.
at different points some angles will seem more productive than others, or more salient (it's hard to see the social stakes in microhouse or electroclash, say) but other times you might want to try to use them all. (and i'm sure there are points where the EF/GE cake is too rich).
the prism thing is is sort of my big disagreement with kodwo eshun, that as a point of policy he eliminates for himself one whole set of prisms to do with the social, the historical. why would you want to tie your hands like that, why reject a whole set of methods that produce results?
re. pre-92 england as peaches and cream. actually if you recall there was a recession in the early nineties, it's the economy stupid thing was what lost bush his re-election, and it was particularly bad in the uk in 92-93. it came after a period of economic boom and optimism in the late eighties (which really fueled rave), thatcherism's policies had begun to finally pay off (for some of the country anyway -- London and the South of England more than elsewhre), a new spirit of entrepreneuralism abroad esp in the young (see rave again) lots of money circulating in the economy, and more important a perception that there was a boom. that changed by about the time rave turned dark and junglistic, unemployment rose, doom and gloom in the headlines. plus more important the specific microeconomy of rave was doing badly, the boom bubble of massive raves and records that were so popular they'd go straight in the charts wihtout any mainstream radio play, that had burst. so that deflation would be the background to whatever was also going on musically in terms of the music's own narrative, the pharmacological narrative
re mills as purism/fanaticism, if minimal techno was a one man genre i could say probably 'yay', but certainly much more when i wrote the bk there was a whole genre of minimal techno and it seemed to show the downside of purism/fanaticism, you have the purist impulse becoming anorexic, eating away at itself. same thing happened to drum'n'bass ultimately.
talking of which SoundMurderer mix-Cd on Violent Turd -- 60 tks of ragga-jungle circa 94 in just over an hour -- the best jungle mix ever? meaning therefore the best dance music mix ever?
― simon r, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 13:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 13:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 13:24 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 13:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
Simon--Jesus god this Soundmurderer fella knows his shit, dunn'e?
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 13:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
When is this COMING out??!? I don't see it listed on Tigerbeat6's website at all!! What's on it? Who mixed it?
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 13:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 13:56 (twenty-one years ago) link