Bonny Tyler's Total Eclipse Of The Heart: classic or dud?

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"Jim comes to my door when I'm not even expecting him. He says that he knows how big a fan I am because he lives next door even though I never knew. He says he's watched me through the window many times when I've been masturbating to his music and that he is really turned on by the way I move my body and that I'm very much in harmony with the music. He then asks me if I'm willing to come to his place and help him work out some of the kinks he's having with some of the new songs he's been writing. I tell him I'd be happy to help but I don't know how I could. He says that I could let him watch me masturbate myself and that would be his inspiration because he would tell by the way my body responds if he's making the right adjustments. I'm more than happy to oblige and off we go. (For some reason this is a reoccurring fantasy I have whenever I do myself - that he asks to watch and I let him.)"

Well, Jim certainly looks pleased.

http://www.jimsteinman.com/wwwboard/jim198.gif

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 27 October 2003 19:25 (twenty years ago) link

"Beautiful" is vile and, in Michael Parkinson's words I'll punch any man who says otherwise (except Enrique, perhaps, cos he's a good egg). the question is: what do we think of "We Don't Need Another Hero"? I can think of some contexts where that song Makes More Sense than almost anything else, and other contexts where it is just absurd.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Monday, 27 October 2003 19:56 (twenty years ago) link

I'm amazed that this thread has gotten this far without anyone mentioning the wedding scene in "Old School".

"And I need you now tonight / I fuckin need you more than ever"

"Beautiful" is ass.

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Monday, 27 October 2003 19:57 (twenty years ago) link

Does anyone else remember the '84 David Copperfield special where Bonnie Tyler sang "I Need A Hero" to him from the North Rim of the Grand Canyon while Mr. Copperfield levitated over the thing? The split screen image of Copperfield in a full lotus, arms crossed, eyes closed, hovering 1,000 feet above the canyon floor while Bonnie called him home in song is one of those things that makes childhood seem like an endless acid trip.

― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 27 October 2003 22:48 (twenty years ago) link

Taking sides: "Total Eclipse..." original version vs. "Total Eclipse..." house/trance/etc remix?

― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:17 (twenty years ago) link

I'm still upset that Limp Bizkit covered "Behind Blue Eyes" instead of this. I dunno if it's classic or not (I only hear like parts of it on the radio, like most Jim Steinman songs) but it's better than "Behind Blue Eyes."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:18 (twenty years ago) link

trance remixes of eighties songs are the worst thing ever...

― robin (robin), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:22 (twenty years ago) link

Was "Total Eclipse..." in the running for a limpbizkit cover, Anthony?

― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:23 (twenty years ago) link

Yup, along some Love And Rockets song I never heard of. THE MIND BOGGLES.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:26 (twenty years ago) link

I repeat, NIKKI FRENCH = ROWR

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:28 (twenty years ago) link

I suspect the secret of the original "Total Eclipse of the Heart" is how it wants "Power of Love" to be "Wuthering Heights", or vice versa.

If there's a problem with Diane Warren/Celine Dion effect it's that it has tended to iron out all eccentricity in the power ballad. That's partly why Bedingfield's "If You're Not The One" is so great, and why "Never Gonna Leave Your Side" or whatever it was is so drab.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 27 October 2003 23:58 (twenty years ago) link

it has tended to iron out all eccentricity in the power ballad

Ah, bless you Mr. Finney. Again you are a genius. :-) But yeah, this sums it up. There is also very little sense of...well, 'camp' is such a loaded word, but the lack of same in favor of sheer pointless formalism in so many of these ballads is wearying. I was thinking of this in particular when watching an episode or two of Pop Idol with Martin during my UK trip, the sheer dullness of one soundalike ballad after another -- more than a few selections coming from Ms. Warren's pen in particular, I seem to recall -- made the whole exercise pure pain. There was nothing to get excited about, no reason to care.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 00:55 (twenty years ago) link

Ha ha Australian Idol has been *much* better in this regard!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 01:18 (twenty years ago) link

I misread the thread title and thought that Bonnie "Prince" Billy had covered "Total Eclipse of the Heart". Now *that* would be fucking awesome.

― Nick Mirov (nick), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 05:42 (twenty years ago) link

it's overblown, camp, manipulative tosh and humanity is poorer for liking it!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 08:58 (twenty years ago) link

c'mon julio, tell us what you REALLY think!

the song is indeed camp, overproduced, manipulative tosh - and i LOVE it. although maybe it's because i remember asking this cute girl maria to slow dance in grade 7 to this song and she said yes, so i guess it has some sort of significance on a personal level only...

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 09:40 (twenty years ago) link

jim steinman is THE MAN, and if anyone says otherwise i will beat them up.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:10 (twenty years ago) link

it's overblown, camp, manipulative tosh and humanity is poorer for liking it!

Like Rob says, it's great BECAUSE it's so overblown, camp and manipulative.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:26 (twenty years ago) link

no, that's too obvious. not all that's *really* bad becomes good.

that just reeks of some stuck-in-1992 gen-X cliche

― paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:34 (twenty years ago) link

"it's great BECAUSE it's so overblown, camp and manipulative" <> "all that's *really* bad becomes good"

HTH

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:36 (twenty years ago) link

come on...is it such a stretch?

― paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:39 (twenty years ago) link

"it" (singular) <> "all" (plural)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:41 (twenty years ago) link

(*yawns*)

― paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:45 (twenty years ago) link

ImImpressedOrEvenCare = False

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:51 (twenty years ago) link

Just last week I was thinking how it's totally an airsupply song but with way more testosteronesupply.

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 04:00 (twenty years ago) link

(CLASSIC.)

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 04:01 (twenty years ago) link

Why are overblown-ness, campness and manipulation bad things? In a novel perhaps they would be - in a movie possibly - but in a pop single??

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 10:56 (twenty years ago) link

Exactly! PS is Tico Tico the silent recently but presumably with good reason Tom Ewing? I'm not sure about the concept of manipulation in general. The world doesn't work like that, you can't avoid what gets termed 'manipulation'.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:02 (twenty years ago) link

Tico Tico is Tom Ewing when he's not being a moderator, which at the moment is indefinitely.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:03 (twenty years ago) link

Why are overblown-ness, campness and manipulation bad things? In a novel perhaps they would be - in a movie possibly - but in a pop single??

they are not as long as there's an element of 'smarts' to it - not necessarily irony. also if you apply these to other genres (rock, dance) you will surely then have a pop single anyway?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:21 (twenty years ago) link

In a pop single it is actually worse bcz its concentrated in 3 minutes.

In a 500 page novel if the overblowness etc isn't there all the way through it could be tolerable. Same with a movie: certain awful scenes but its a two hour thing.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:54 (twenty years ago) link

But why is the grandiose bad Julio?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 11:55 (twenty years ago) link

hmm...The thing abt these ballads is that its designed to make you feel certain things. I guess the emotional spectrum is limited (sorry, I know that kind of reasoning sounds awful but I'm trying to think this one through: I'll just throw this one in...).

I think there is space for grandiose but it is precisely bcz its all concentrated in a 3 minute pop single that it makes it 'bad' to me. Maybe if you played this in a disco it would be fine but I just don't understand how anyone could listen to this kind of thing at home.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 12:05 (twenty years ago) link

i sort of agree - i have realised that TEOTH is quite a well made song, but the only way i would listen to it is just to contemplate that craft aspect, or to appreciate it as a story/scenario from someone else's (Bonnie Tyler's i suppose) view. i certainly wouldn't listen to something like that looking for emotional comfort, re-assurance or to relate. it is hard to take seriously the idea that anyone would.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 12:17 (twenty years ago) link

Try to imagine the most nauseous, vomit-inducing song you've ever heard in your life and multiply it by a thousand and you're still nowhere near how much I detest that song. WORST HIT SINGLE BY ANYBODY ANYWHERE INCLUDING WHITNEY HOUSTON!!!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 13:36 (twenty years ago) link

To me "Total Eclipse..." contains the whole range of human experience -- joy, pain, sadness, anger, wonder -- although the "positive" emotions come more from how it makes me rather than the content of the song itself. It reminds me of the best of the first Andrew WK album in how it goes so far over the top it attains a kind of grace. If you like it and feel it only a little, you're doing so w/ a hint of irony, but if you give yourself over to it completely it becomes pure.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 14:01 (twenty years ago) link

Basically it seems that liking this song or not is completely dependent upon how willing you are to let your emotions be artificcially manipulated by a pop single.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 14:47 (twenty years ago) link

As opposed to you generating yr own emotions authentically, without any awful pop stars involved, because you, TEOTH-hataz are independent of all that shit...

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 14:49 (twenty years ago) link

(My argument only applies to Miccio.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 15:09 (twenty years ago) link

''because you, TEOTH-hataz are independent of all that shit...''

yes, 'we' are better than you.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 15:13 (twenty years ago) link

no, that's too obvious. not all that's *really* bad becomes good. that just reeks of some stuck-in-1992 gen-X cliche

Hey, I didn't say that everything that's bloated and camp and manipulative is great. In this case, however, I just relish the it's a big, melodramatic wedding cake of a song. Is it entirely ridiculous? Of course, but it's crafted with so much loving care that I find it hard not to appreciate.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 15:16 (twenty years ago) link

I LOVE this song.

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 15:22 (twenty years ago) link

Why are overblown-ness, campness and manipulation bad things?

They aren't. Not neccessarily. Not when done by the likes of Genesis or Yes, that is, in a tastefull and sophisticated fashion.

Hair metal ballads don't fit into that positive category though

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 18:41 (twenty years ago) link

Tastefully-done overblown camp?

This is an oxymoron.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 18:42 (twenty years ago) link

Well, forget about "camp" then, as good 70s prog was never _meant_ to be bad (and rarely was either)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 18:45 (twenty years ago) link

as i said upthread,i really like this song,although i don't own it or anything,but whenever i hear it in a chipper or whatever its always a good laugh...

however,i was curious whether more people would be sympathetic to julio's arguement/reasons if we were talking about my heart will go on or something...

also,i was only a kid,but what did people think of this song when it was first released?

― robin (robin), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 18:57 (twenty years ago) link

I guess I was about 13 when it came out -- I loved it then but I wouldn't have admitted it, no way. Like many adolescents I was a coward & was afraid that liking this song made me a pussy.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:01 (twenty years ago) link

Taking sides: Light in your life vs. Love in the dark

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:04 (twenty years ago) link

As I admitted on the other thread I like "Think Twice" a bit but "My Life Will Go On" is too restrained, it's enormous in a "this is expensive and huge and sensible" sense rather than a "my god how can they get away with THAT" sense - in TEOTH there's a real strain to get the record sounding that enormous, whereas MHWGO can do it with no seeming effort and is thus more boring.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:25 (twenty years ago) link

You can belt Total Eclipse Of The Heart (as you can Think Twice, and as you can't My Heart Will Go On - wrong register, too wussy, and strangely forgettable in the sense that I can remember the fluty bit and the way she sings the title, but the rest? nah). That's why it's classic. Oh, and "we're living in a powderkeg and GIVING OFF SPARKS!"

― cis (cis), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:13 (twenty years ago) link

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