what does this pfm song review thingy even mean anyway?

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watch out for those poppyseeds

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:53 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm afraid all the Nyquil I've been popping turned my pee into Mad Dog 20/20.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:55 (eighteen years ago) link

there's only one way to find out

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:56 (eighteen years ago) link

I.P. Sizzurp

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Polka party?

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:57 (eighteen years ago) link

see, im dutch, right, i find this thread interesting cos i write for an english magazine and often i wonder if my style is too mediocre. just because i try to review an album based on what it sounds like without trying to think of cool metaphors.

rizzx (Rizz), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Juelz Santana:
"For Realz, Forx"
genre: hip-hop

"WHATEVER, NUTFACE/NUTFACE ABOOBIE/I'm sorry, I have to go take a drug test now." Watch out for those poppyseeds. I'm afraid all the Nyquil [you've] been popping turned [your]pee into Mad Dog 20/20. There's only one way to find out. I.P. Sizzurp. Polka party?

[three stars]

Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:39 (eighteen years ago) link

chris, we're pleased to offer you a staff position here at blender.

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:43 (eighteen years ago) link

daver's pee =

http://www.marchofdimes.com/images/chapters/NY_greater_Chris-Russo.jpg

maura (maura), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:53 (eighteen years ago) link

hahahahahahaha

If it's that easy Jess why was I told after submitting clips that Blender "would have no work to offer (me) but thanks for trying"?

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:54 (eighteen years ago) link

OH SWEET JESUS NO WONDER IT BURNS

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:58 (eighteen years ago) link

nabisco, I won't make the claim that there's a huge amount of music criticism that is ridiculously hard to understand and requires a significant amount of interpretation. I'm just claiming that music criticism is overly difficult for what people expect it to be. I want music criticism to be utilatarian. I want to walk home, drunk and horny. Masturbate to some porno, and then read a few reviews before I pass out and make a mental note of "sounds interesting" or "forget them." I don't want to have to think about it. That's what books are for, political commentary, etc.

So, for an example, let me load today's Pitchfork reviews.

Okay, the first review I read was the Espers one, and it's exactly what I want a review to be. Great job. High five.

So instead let's look at this one:
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/q/quintron/swamp-tech.shtml

Starts off simple enough, but then gets to shit like:

Dumb fun trumps brainy tedium, and if Swamp Tech were an RPG, it'd be all whimsical mini-games, no arduous stat-building.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. The rest of the review is fine.

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/n/nadja/truth-becomes-death.shtml

Though timely, Truth Becomes Death risks being a marginal record, if only because it has a nature so huge some might take it as scenery

I'm lost. I understand that it is an experimental album and may not become popular, but how is it's "nature" "huge"? What does that mean? And what does it mean to be mistaken for scenery? Is this just supposed to sound witty? Is the album's sound "large" such as Mogwai (which was cited earlier) songs, and that is why it may become marginal? How does that make sense?

In this barbarously delicate sea, the crashing guitars and horror house vocals of "Memory Leak" wreck damage in some other nearby room.

Oh, another metaphor. Okay, the album's sound is huge like the ocean, and it sounds kind of scary and "barbarous" I guess. Okay, that's nice, but isn't there a much easier way to say that? The review already once cited before how "large" the sound is using allusions to nature.

Nadja's not obsessed or stuck on ideologies, which is why they sound like latecomers.

I have no idea what this means.

So, even if you do think it is only minorly difficult to understand what all that means, my stance is this: minorly difficult is still too difficult. I want a music review. Not creative writing. I'd read something else for that.

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 6 January 2006 05:10 (eighteen years ago) link

THE PAIN IT HURTS US

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 6 January 2006 05:34 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm sorry dude, did the oddly thorough troll enworsen your pee-pain?

Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 6 January 2006 05:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Mickey if your reading comprehension is not up to the average record review, that's fine. And if you going to be disappointed that the average record review doesn't come down to a level that suits you, well, I suppose that's your prerogative. Me, I like good writing -- good, clear, stylish, sophisticated, non-opaque writing -- and I'd prefer not to see the reviews I read descend to some "utilitarian" Dick-and-Jane level.

nabiscothingy, Friday, 6 January 2006 05:51 (eighteen years ago) link

hey ILM put your dicks back in your pants

Nick Sylvester, Friday, 6 January 2006 06:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Mickey OTM

big words in the wrong hands = dangerous

front row, hand raised, Friday, 6 January 2006 06:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, in such circumstances the risk of non-cromulence is palatinous.

ratty, Friday, 6 January 2006 06:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I am so going to douse my Pfork track reviews in long ass words and arcane sixteenth century historical references just so that all y'all obstupefact readers choke hard.

Mwahahahaha

Drew "chaotic evil" Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 6 January 2006 06:18 (eighteen years ago) link

big words in the wrong hands = dangerous

Biggest words in Mickey's quoted material (by number of syllables):

ideologies
barbarously
latecomers
whimsical
marginal
delicate
scenery
arduous
tedium

Apart from maybe "barbarously" these are all pretty common words.

But a better retort to Mickey's post might be drawn from his own words: "I don't want to have to think about it." I suppose it's inevitable that there will be people who don't like thinking about stuff; I suppose it's inevitable that some of those people would nonetheless want to read music criticism (without thinking about it); I'm going to try and remain comforted by the idea that this is some perverse minority opinion. It's certainly the first time I've ever seen someone say he prefers writing that doesn't make him think.

nabiscothingy, Friday, 6 January 2006 06:47 (eighteen years ago) link

(Also for the record all of those common words are used properly, with the sole exception that someone might be averse to the poetic juxtaposition of "delicate" and "barbarous.")

nabiscothingy, Friday, 6 January 2006 06:49 (eighteen years ago) link

I want the writing to make me think about the music, not the reviewer.

deej.. (deej..), Friday, 6 January 2006 06:51 (eighteen years ago) link

Not that I'm neccessarily disagreeing w you, N.

deej.. (deej..), Friday, 6 January 2006 06:52 (eighteen years ago) link

I really like pretentious reviews.

Actually, this review totally put me in a bad mood. Mainly because i'm a die-hard (post movie poster) BoYo fan (common ways to say SSLYBY: the actual name, Boris Yeltsin and sometimes BoYo) I like saying SSLYBY (sly-bye) as well.

Tape Store (Tape Store), Friday, 6 January 2006 06:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, and the Shins change-your-life thing seemed like it was a reference to Spin's short SSLYBY mention (which said "...they could someday succeed the Shins as the next indie-pop band emo-earnest kids insist 'will change your life'.")

Tape Store (Tape Store), Friday, 6 January 2006 07:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Every ILM thread about heavy-handed Pitchfork reviews just encourages more government regulation for when the Internet 2 is released.

Cunga (Cunga), Friday, 6 January 2006 07:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Mickey's thesis is not unreasonable; it's somewhat unfortunate that the examples picked to support his thesis make him appear to not know English.

Dan (It's Called "Inference", Dude) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 January 2006 13:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought we already went through this on the xgau thread and then all of a sudden people are seriously responding to someone saying things like "I want music criticism to be utilatarian."? C'mon guys.

Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 6 January 2006 13:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Wow, I had no idea I'd get so much hate for claiming that record reviews should be simple matters. I may be way off, but I really think that it's pretty much the common opinion outside of ILM.

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Haha Eppy which Xgau thread?

Dan (Not That I've Read Any Of Them Since The Infamous One Quoted Here) Perry (D, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:05 (eighteen years ago) link

And nabisco, I'm just slightly offended that you characterize me as somebody who "doesn't want to think." Like I said above, it's a matter of genre. I don't want a music review to make me think. I have novels sitting on my bed stand for that. I have The New Republic, literary magazines, textbooks, etc, for that. I just don't want to think when I read a record review.

Let me ask, how would you feel if other product reviews were wrote in a Pitchfork-style? Say you wanted to buy new speakers, looked up a review, and they were described as having the sound of a barbarously dangerous sea. Other nature metaphors were used. Compared to videogames. Less like Mario RPG, more like Mario Kart! Come on, would your response not be "for fucks sake, I don't care about how clever you are or anything, just give me the straightforward information I want"? That's how I feel about music reviews. I don't think it's an unreasonable stance, despite it looking like I'm alone here on ILM.

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Do you find it difficult to find reviews like that, Mickey?

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I think it would be pretty hilarious to read a speaker review like that!

Dan (TS: Quantitative Vs Qualitative) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link

No, it's not difficult, but it's unnecessary. I really made a mistake in my PFM-quoting post using the word "difficult," because it's not what I really meant. My main issue is more with conciseness. Too much of the "high school level English devices" such as metaphors and such are totally unnecessary and distract from the actual review. Why are there numerous nature metaphors for the size of the band's sound? Why am I made to be thinking about the ocean or scenery? Why not just say the band has a gigantic sound?

Dumb fun trumps brainy tedium, and if Swamp Tech were an RPG, it'd be all whimsical mini-games, no arduous stat-building.

I'm reading a record review. Why am I thinking about video games here? Why not just end the sentence with "tedium" (and rephrase it slightly so it makes sense). I don't need a reference to video games to understand that the music is more dumb fun than serious.

My point is not at all that this is difficult to read. It's not above my head, nor do I not like to think. I just don't want any of that when I'm reading a record review, and that's the end of my thesis. Would you want it reading a technical manual? Front page news? TV Guide?

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, after posting all that I just realized that Mark asked me if it is difficult to find reviews like that. Not read reviews like that.

Yes, Mark, it is hard to find the type of review I want. Pitchfork writes them sometimes. The Espers review was perfect. Newspapers write them almost exclusively, but newspapers also don't often review music I'm interested in. I really stopped reading music reviews because they don't suite my purpose. I just scan through pages like Pitchfork and make notes of albums with high scores to check out later.

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:25 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought we already went through this on the xgau thread and then all of a sudden people are seriously responding to someone saying things like "I want music criticism to be utilatarian."? C'mon guys.
-- Eppy (epp...) (webmail), January 6th, 2006. (Eppy)

Haha, "seriously responding." As if my position is so indefensible that it doesn't even deserve a response. I should have expected a reception like this knowing ILM is so full of record reviewers. Next time I'll just keep my mouth shut and let logged out/unregistered person take the ridicule for criticizing PFM.

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Dude, I think your point is 100% valid now that you've clearly expressed it! And, quite frankly, anyone who doesn't is making the mistake of conflating criticism with literature.

Dan (I Can't Finish My Book So Instead I Will Use My Florid Prose To Describe Th, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Thanks Dan.

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:34 (eighteen years ago) link

I really think that it's pretty much the common opinion outside of ILM.

It's def. the common opinion among the masses. But that only means so much. (Da Vinci Code vs Shalimar the Clown, Pauline Kael vs Leonard Maltin, blah blah blah.)

In terms of crit i read for pleasure (which is almost all the music or literary crit i read these days), it's definitely not the same as what you're looking for.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess the obvious notable difference between speaker reviews and record reviews is that the latter deals with art whereas the former deals with a product more or less reduceable to an objective "good or bad." and i don't think art criticism should aspire to be utilitarian, because at the end of the day, regardless of how much authority there is in a writer's voice it's still a personal response bla bla bla... if Mickey wants a buyer's guide, it sounds like he's found his method (looking at scores and stopping there), and if he needs concrete descriptions of a band's sound or w/e then a record review probably isn't where he should be looking (www.allmusic.com i dunno).


Leon Neyfakh (Leon Neyfakh), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:42 (eighteen years ago) link

making the mistake of conflating criticism with literature

i basically agree, except i don't see it as a mistake!

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I am steadily more convinced that readers of music criticism need to stop for a second and read books. Literature. Maybe even high-school English class staples...

i was grooving along here, expecting a zing, but then...

I can't think of any other way to remedy these constant complaints that people can't understand basic literary tactics like metaphor (simile, even!), use of images, personification, and so on.

errrrr, no! surely you mean, if they read books n' shit then they wouldn't put up with such awkwardly assembled prose!

Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:50 (eighteen years ago) link

dog just because you learned about them in high school doesn't mean simile, use of images, and personification is somehow inherently awkward or primitive.

Leon Neyfakh (Leon Neyfakh), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:56 (eighteen years ago) link

are, heh

Leon Neyfakh (Leon Neyfakh), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Reading reviews for pleasure strikes me as being an advanced form of mentalism, sean.

Artistic reviews are "utilitarian" by default; they are describing an artistic endeavor to the reader and offering a value judgement to help said reader form an opinion on the work in question. No amount of "subjectivity!" can alter that.

Dan (Reviews Written For Reviewers, Great) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:59 (eighteen years ago) link

This is all going back to my hobby horse about how people who are music critics seem to be allergic to actual music analysis and rely heavily on Barney-fucking-Grimace prose to distract the reader from their lack of technical knowledge.

Dan (Yeah, I Went There. Again.) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 January 2006 15:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Art criticism needn't just be a rating (ie "value judgment") of the art, nor a compact blurb (ie "description") -- there are countless examples of crit that engages, plays with, reflects off of, draws insight from, etc etc, art.

to help said reader form an opinion

Why do you think this is the only role that writing-about-art has?

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 6 January 2006 15:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Why do you people have to put all these big words and language in, I just want to know if it's any good and what it sounds like. Could you like, replace the text with an animation of some dude dancing to the music? And maybe replace the star system with a thumbs up or a number of Red Stripe bottles or something, that'd be more eye-catching.

Do readers want reviews that just tell them whether it's a worthwhile album, or do they want to have reviews that are worth reading as thought pieces? And more importantly, can we acknowledge that some of the thought pieces are badly written and not just because they transcend the thumbs up/thumbs down level of criticism?

mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 6 January 2006 15:04 (eighteen years ago) link

I write reviews for pleasure, I'd be lying if I said I read them for pleasure. (Some writers who I like review music sometimes, though.)

Tom (Groke), Friday, 6 January 2006 15:05 (eighteen years ago) link


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