Elliott Smith is dead.

don't tell me to Shut Up.

Here's something my friend Julia wrote. I think it's pretty important.
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We have all of this euphamistic, false language that we use surrounding suicide so that we don't have to talk about mental illness as a true illness. To me, saying "he killed himself" is really odd, because it implies a lot of free will and many many people who "kill themselves" are suffering from addiction, depression, or psychosis that keeps them from logically deciding to die. Suicide victims often suffer from diseases that have the common symptom of death.

Saying "he took his own life" is also really weird to me. It makes it sound like now he possesses his life, like he wrestled it from the hands of an oppressor and now has it to do what he likes with it. Suicide victims don't take their lives, they have them taken by horrible debilitating diseases.

I wish that msn.com and mtv.com would run stories that said "Singer-songwriter Elliot Smith died today of knife wounds associated wiht drug-addiction and depression, two diseases that our culture refuses to effectively treat or recognize as pathologies rather than personal flaws. As a result of our culture's refusal to take mental illness seriously, we have lost an influential young artist."

The cruelty of depression is that part of initiating a cure has to be the courage and self-love to recognize and admit that you are ill, but those are the very properties of which the disease robs you. We don't expect people with tuberculosis to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we call ambulences, feed them soup and antibiotics, hold the bloody rag into which they are coughing, and recognize that they are victims. This is (figuratively) how we need to treat victims of depression.

I guess one point made by Kevin Erickson is that part and parcel of depressive mental illnesses is that you can lack the desire or ability to help yourself.

I don't. That's opinion, not news.

oh now that's classic

I am very angry at Elliott Smith today.

xpost: Dadaismus, ES had received v. expensive tx for alcoholism, and everybody said/assumed that there was always an opiate component to his self-medicating.

oh now that's classic

[Actually I would quite like that if it was read out on the news Kent Brockman style, especially if he then pondered whether it was time for citizens to crowbar open each other's heads and feast on the goo inside]

I agree, but I'm not sure what the answer is. Imagine if everyone receiving an SSRI now were in psychotherapy. We would need to quadruple the number of therapists.

+++The confusing thing for me was that the Under the Radar article gave me the impression he was doing a lot better.
agreed! he had his new studio, plans to donate all new tour money to the abused kids foundation, 10 hour interview...

Fair enough. Actually I do remember hearing that he was hospitalized against his will sometime pre-XO, and was very unhappy about it. But I'm wondering WHY sick people sometimes refuse to get help. If we didn't stigmatize depression and addiction, perhaps it would be easier to accept help when it's available and offered? I'm not interested in "blaming" society or anyone else. I share John's anger at Elliott, but it seems like the best way for the music community to deal with this terrible loss would be to think about how we can keep it from happening again.

Imagine if everyone receiving an SSRI now were in psychotherapy. We would need to quadruple the number of therapists.

Actually the nice thing about therapy is that when it runs its course, you theoretically don't need it anymore. With SSRIs you have to keep taking them or you feel shitty again. That's why the prescription drug companies love them. SSRIs can definitely be helpful but they work best when used in conjunction with regular counseling. These days they're often handed out by general practitioners. If we had a TV commercial for the Society of Counseling Psychologists for every Prozac or Paxil commercial, I think a lot of people would be healthier.

"Theoretically" is the key word there. I'm an advocate for therapy over drugs any day, but the field of psychology could use some tough love. As a science, it doesn't hold up particularly well. The success rate of psychotherapy is low compared to physical medicine. At this point, unfortunately, drugs hold up better under scientific scrutiny.

"You can check out any time you like, but you may never leave".

Just my opinion. I do think this attitude has a big impact on the whole issue. It's easy to blame the victim but you never really know what state of mind someone is in with whatever disorder or problem they are dealing with. They might be capable of understanding it, but they might be in too deep to see the light. I never attempted suicide but there were times when I lost so much hope I literally didn't know what to do with myself anymore, and looking back with hindsight I don't think I was actually capable of seeing clearly at the time.

this is awful.

rip.

(also not everyone on meds or in therapy is neccessarily suffering from a chronic mental illness. These are common treatments for many different troubles in life.)

And again, plenty of people try to get help and don't perservere, because another counterintuitive aspect rarely mentioned is - it's very tough to start feeling better even if that's the goal, 'cause there is always the ease with which one can fall back into familiar depressive patterns. Getting well is hard if you're not used to being well, basically!

I consider myself lucky to have never been addicted to anything as it seems that addiction + depression is a doubly hard thing to get free of. I am sorry Elliott Smith quit fighting it.. and that they left knives around.. reminded me of telling a friend lately, dude, if you really feel like crashing yr car into a tree, hide your keys and don't get behind the wheel that day!

I ask, 'cos this is a pretty thoughtful (and lengthy) discussion. Perhaps airing these views has been therapeutic for ILMers themselves?

My experience is that mental illness is somewhat stigmatised (and that generation and, yes, geography can be influencing factors in this regard), but there are degrees of illness. I wouldn't hold someone who was severely psychotic accountable, but a mild clinical depression? I was diagnosed with PTSD and depression, and it was very difficult -- but with meds (initially -- try to get off of those suckers as early as possible unless you want your brain to feel like taffy) and simultaneous counseling, it's possible to beat it. But, then, subsequent vigilance has to be lifelong, and it can be exhausting.

I'm mad at Elliott Smith, I empathize with Elliott Smith, I feel sorry for Elliott Smith. All now pointless, because he's dead and doesn't care any more. It's complicated. I guess what I'm saying is: judging people is pointless... and yet, what else are we supposed to do?

daria OTM about how easy it is to revert to familiar patterns.

It does hit home for me because I've dealt with depression in varying degrees since childhood, and though I'd say my situation has improved a lot, it's something that's always there. And sometimes it's hard to stay completely in control, you have to be constantly aware of the patterns you're indulging in without realizing. (not to be exhibitionist, but none of you know who I am and vice versa, and I'm not necessarily ashamed that I've been in therapy before.)

Therapy is nothing to be ashamed of; more people should be willing to attempt it. Unfortunately, it still carries a stigma that scares people out of getting help. For instance, one of the better things I'm decent at is helping mates (even the odd stranger) by giving them a listening ear.

Sometimes, all you will want is to be heard. Who knows whether Smith had that?