Bjork's new program "Vespertine" Total Victory or Total Failure?

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I still think it's a really good intimate sex record.

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 24 March 2003 13:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

two years pass...
I came here to be all like "Vespertine sounds really good four years out! Especially compared to Medulla!" But this exchange is the new Funniest Ever:

...yes...yes...it is warm in the cavern of the Bjork-hayt0rz...and we have many delicious cookies besides...

Lukas (lukas), Saturday, 4 June 2005 05:08 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...
this album is produced brilliantly, has a few stunning songs, but sustains the same mood a little too well and doesnt really break out of it. i just finished listening to it for the first time in ages and at the end of it, found myself a little dissapointed that it seemed a bit samey overall. a bit too willing to maintain the prettiness and serenity at the cost of momentum or putting a small crack in the lovely iciness that everyone seems to be talking about in this thread.

tigertiger (tigertiger), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 10:19 (seventeen years ago) link

"Bjork forgot to write any actual songs"
i think this is the recurring problem vespertine has. weird, cos while listening to it, i really liked it, soon as it finished, i realised something was missing.

tigertiger (tigertiger), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 10:36 (seventeen years ago) link

i really like it but i drag it out the least of all of her records, and initially from memory it took quite a few forced listens to get into.

Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 13:03 (seventeen years ago) link

i think it's a great album. marks change from homogenic sound to medulla sound, stripping down beats and textures to emphasize vocals and rhythm. i consider vespertine and medulla to be really interesting efforts - seem to be kind of a phase for her. i don't think the fact that Vespertine is a bit homogenic (as in the adjective, not the album) is fine - the moods are beautiful enough to hold their own. and if you think about it, Homogenic is pretty homogenic, itself, what with the textures - the lush orchestral arrangements.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link

*i DO think the fact that Vespertine is homogenic is fine.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link

also, i don't think it's a bad thing to not break your back making a record. seems like she wanted to chill out with Vespertine - put down what simply came out of her, and decorate it with really pretty instrumentation. that's fine by me, especially considering what comes easy to bjork is infinitely better than a lot of other contemporary artists.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 15:58 (seventeen years ago) link

and just for the record, Debut RULES

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

It's good, but it's an album I find hard to pay much attention to, it just kind of wafts about in the background (exception: the masterful Pagan Poetry), unlike her first three records.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 17:28 (seventeen years ago) link

What's the verdict on Medulla? I'd like to like it, but really can't get into it at all.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 17:29 (seventeen years ago) link

I loveloveloved "Oceania" but felt no desire to explore the rest of the album; it's like that song was so perfect it completely satiated any desire I might have to listen to the album.

Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 17:34 (seventeen years ago) link

I loveloveloved "Oceania" but felt no desire to explore the rest of the album; it's like that song was so perfect it completely satiated any desire I might have to listen to the album.

Ha! I felt exactly the same.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 17:38 (seventeen years ago) link

What's the verdict on Medulla?
Good album, mostly. Markedly better than Vespertine for the sole fact that it has that song that sounds like Debussy (think "Sirenes") gone pop, "Oceania."

But then, there's also good songs like "Pleasure is all Mine," "Mouth's Cradle," "Triumph of a Heart," "Sonnets / Unrealities" & the Robert Wyatt duet "Submarine."

I'll pretend "Desired Constellation" never existed, though.

Turangalila (Salvador), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 17:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh yeah, "Triumph of a Heart" was also good but seriously nothing can compare to "Oceania"; that might be my favorite song of hers of all time.

Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 17:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Dan Perry, Nico Muhly (the guy who helped arrange Oceania) has a new album out. It's nothing mindblowing but it's nicely produced, and the last track with Antony singing is nice.

Turangalila (Salvador), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 17:53 (seventeen years ago) link

i haven't heard medulla enough, but what i've heard, i really like. i love the vocal experimentation, and i like that she seems to throw everything to the wind (i don't even know if that's an expression). it's like she really just wanted to go kinda crazy, and she did, and it's fun to listen to!

i think it's bold to put some of those vocal noises on a "pop" record - it reminds me of some of kate bush's stuff on The Dreaming, but even more bizarre. also, those bloopy noises on that one track - where is the line with you? - are very reminiscent of some bloopy noises on The Dreaming.

and i just really like that bjork always leaves room for flaws in her music.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 18:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Ok.

Turangalila (Salvador), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 18:26 (seventeen years ago) link

hehe i know, non sequitors much

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link

i think what i mean is, like that track, you know, with all the grunts and groans - it's like, she's taking her style to the extreme insofar as she is allowing room for imperfection, you know?

room for like total vocal failure. bjork has talked about how she has come to accept the fact that sometimes her voice "sounds beautiful, sometimes not so beautiful," or something like that. i feel like that sort of margin for error is apparent in pretty much all her stuff, in the looseness of some of the arrangements, but mainly in the cadence of her voice. it's not always perfect, and that's kind of the point. with that part of Medulla, i feel like she's driving the point home: total failure is its own artform. i love that.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 18:36 (seventeen years ago) link

dan did you ever hear the 'oceania' duet with kelis?

total failure is its own artform

erm i don't think this is true, nor do i think it's anything that bjork has aimed for/'left room for' - most of her solo work has totally had a perfectionist streak about it! i don't think much she's done is any different to exactly what she wanted it to be.

The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 19:11 (seventeen years ago) link

(i really like vespertine and medĂșlla btw)

The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 19:12 (seventeen years ago) link

hmm, i don't know... i mean, the arrangements on vespertine are certainly not perfectionist to me, except for maybe hidden place. a lot of the treble heavy instrumentation on that album seems quite loosely arranged. and i don't think her voice has ever been perfectionist. it fluctuates, ebbs and flows - like a lot.

granted, i do think perfectionism is very different from making it what she wants it to be. i don't know she wants her voice to sound perfect - i've definitely heard her say something to this effect.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 19:19 (seventeen years ago) link

*i don't know that she wants her voice to sound perfect.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 19:19 (seventeen years ago) link

dan did you ever hear the 'oceania' duet with kelis?

I have! It's also awesome (and points out that the song itself is really really strong in addition to the renditions).

Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 19:24 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't know exactly what bjork's voice does technically (no doubt dan perry will inform us) but i think those ebbs-and-flows are precisely what she wants to do with it! i mean she's not trying to be xtina aguilera here, this much is obvious.

xp

I have! It's also awesome (and points out that the song itself is really really strong in addition to the renditions).

yes it definitely made me go back to the original and hear it with new ears - i'd previously thought 'oceania' was one of the more impenetrable tracks (compared with 'where is the line?' or 'who is it?') but it really isn't.

haha i've just remembered about 'ancestors'!!!

The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 19:31 (seventeen years ago) link

well i think it's a combination, Lex. bjork may very well want ebbs and flows in her voice. but at the same time, speaking as a singer, art is not only about what you want, but also about what you can do. there's that thing people say about modern art, you know, don't paint like picasso because you can't paint true to life - paint like picasso because you want to paint that way.

but it's always a compromise: what you want, and what your limitations are. i think bjork treds the line beautifully - in a sense, she is a perfectionist because her visions, whatever they may be in her own world, translate so well on record. on the other hand, to me, it seems like bjork has perfected a world of sound that isn't always perfect. that's how i hear it anyway.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 23:13 (seventeen years ago) link

*modern art = abstract art.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 23:17 (seventeen years ago) link

not to imply they're the same thing. just, that's what i meant to say! god why am i always so afraid of being picked apart on this damn site...

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 23:40 (seventeen years ago) link

if you want to hear a perfectionist, listen to "Night of the Swallow." Seriously, a sound recommendation for anyone. Kate Bush's "Night of the Swallow" on The Dreaming. then talk to me about perfectionism!

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 00:05 (seventeen years ago) link

god why am i always so afraid of being picked apart on this damn site...

What's that supposed to be mean?

Zachary Scott (Zach S), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 00:30 (seventeen years ago) link

HA!

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 00:59 (seventeen years ago) link

This was the first Bjork album I ever bought and ever heard for that matter (complete whim). I thought that buying the newest album at the time would be a good way to be introduced to her work (never a good idea with any artist). Needless to say, I hated it--for five years I would play it and I could never hear one track the whole way through. About a year and a half ago all of a sudden it was awesome and since then I've delved into her catalouge more (but not so much to be duped into buying box sets, just the needless live albums). After hearing Sugarcubes and Post and Homegenic and Debut and Telegram etc. this one is still my favorite. Granted it may not be her best album, I've driven so many cold nights with this that it will always be my favorite. Her notes in "Vespertine Live" are good in explaining her direction: she wanted it to sound isolated and "alone" with herself (ourselves) and that much I love about it. It doesn't have the density of sound like the others and that's what pushes me away from Debut and Post. I can barely stand "I Miss You," which says a lot for my bad taste. I'm mostly partial to the second half: the "Frosti" / "Aurora" one-two punch; "Sun In My Mouth"; "Harm of Will"; "Unison". "Selma Songs" is a close runner-up for me, and then "Medulla." Call me crazy.

earinfections (Nick Twisp), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 02:25 (seventeen years ago) link

you should check out KUKL next, Nick (her pre-Sugarcubes band). Seriously.

I love Vespertine. I love the harp sound, I love the music boxes. I agree that the record emphasizes sound over songwriting, and it does wear a bit towards the end. Still, it has a lovely shimmering aura not unlike primo Cocteau Twins.

sleeve version 2.0 (sleeve testing), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 03:22 (seventeen years ago) link

praise having now been given, i will say that i think the album needed more bass, hidden place being the exception to that. more bass and yes, more exciting songwriting in parts. and the bells, while beautiful, are indeed a bit redundant by the end.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 16:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i still thnk my favorite bjork album may be debut. although i really don't know - it's so hard. i mean, homogenic is homogenic and post is breathtaking too. but debut - that quirky dance sensibility thing, i just love it. big time sensuality is one of my favorite songs ever. and there's more to life than this...

oh and that headphones song on post? now to me, there's an example of the beauty of the imperfect.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 16:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Post is still her best album, I think.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 17:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Also I wouldn't even begin to try deconstructing Bjork's vocal technique.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 17:34 (seventeen years ago) link

why?... it's not that complicated. she has an accent, she sings with a lot of emotion and there is a lot of fluctuation in her voice. Post is great but for me, it's more spotty than Debut or Homogenic. But that's just me.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 17:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Her transition from belt to head voice is astonishing, plus the growls and yelps can't be explained by an accent unless I have a deep misunderstanding of Icelandic.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 17:58 (seventeen years ago) link

"So when it comes to my voice, I just always sang the only way I can
sing, and that's it, really." Bjork quote from Pulse!

Again, art = what you want + what you can do.

I think it's fun deconstructing her voice - we should all be deconstructing anything of interest that seems too difficult to deconstruct. that's like what we do!

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 17:59 (seventeen years ago) link

no, the growls and yelps can't be explained by her accent - certainly didn't imply as much. the growls and yelps can be explained by her emotion and creativity, methinks.

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 18:01 (seventeen years ago) link

the growls and yelps are also indicators of Bjork's resistance to vocal stylings commonly considered palatable. they are markers of her drive to widen the boundaries of what is acceptable as popular music.

From the same Pulse! article:

"...I know I just can't sing like anyone else, and I still haven't found a singer who I can say is my hero or who has influenced me. I...admire a lot of singers and how larger than life, how big they are, but I haven't got anything in common with them. Just the sound of my voice, to begin with, or what I've experienced, just my life in general - there's no way I could compare myself to someone like Edith Piaf, or Maria Callas or Ella Fitzgerald, because they're just too distant from me, and I can't really learn from them either."

Ramzi Awn (rra123), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link

six months pass...
Vespertine is still a really good intimate sex record.

Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 08:51 (sixteen years ago) link

i completely disagree with melissa on this thread but i LOVE the crabbily vitriolic way she hates on it

lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 09:10 (sixteen years ago) link

pagan poetry is so beautiful. been listening to it a lot this weekend after years.

titchyschneiderMk2, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 10:30 (sixteen years ago) link

The only Bjork album that holds up.

baaderonixx, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 10:34 (sixteen years ago) link

i love vespertine, but it's certainly not perfect. seems to get a lotta love, tho, which is cool.

Surmounter, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:50 (sixteen years ago) link

did this really come out 5 years ago?
jeez...time flies when you're doing stuff.

funny farm, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 02:35 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...

So easily the best Bjork record.

admrl, Tuesday, 20 May 2008 21:06 (fifteen years ago) link


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