WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown

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I'm surprised [they] didn’t ask for reparations.

deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

It's not just the word itself though, it's the vitriol with which he says it. I am British too, and I think it's pretty obvious he's a racist, and a very stupid one at that.

Too many xposts to count

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

isn't motherfucker a 33rd degree mason?

Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i think attempts to defend Richards are more likely to be based on 'but this is hilarious Kramer guy, please no he can't be a racist!' denial rather than anything else. but then if Richards was known as an asshole generally (as was douchebag Gibson) before this indeed why bother?

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I am pretty certain I've read that he is a mason.

Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:02 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Richards was just trying to hurt these people's feelings. If he instead said, "Hahahah, laugh it up you ignorant fucks!" that wouldn't be racist, right? But, would anyone call the hecklers racist if they responded, "Shut up, you god damn cracker! Get off the stage, white boy! You suck!" Probably not, right?

If you call someone a redneck, you're lumping him in with a steretype that is intented to hurt him. Not racist, but cultural. Half the people who call people the N-word in places like NY or LA are talking specifically about selfish, loud, angry, belligerent, macho assholes. From what little we see here, it sounds as if these hecklers have been acting like selfish, loud, angry, belligerent, macho assholes long enough to make him flip out.

Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Why do you give a shit, Jay? What's your stake in arguing that he's not? Semantics?

I just think that immediate [behavior = identity] judgments are dangerous. In this particular case, there's a good chance that he probably is a racist, just like there was a good chance, upon the revelation of Mark Foley's improprieties, that he was gay. But the kneejerkism makes me uncomfortable.

This is no longer worth arguing, though.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess it's possible to use racist language with the intent to piss off someone but not really believe in what you're saying, which makes you a total asshole but not necessarily a commited racist.

numerous ilxers (some banned, some not banned) to thread...

but Richards IS way over that here, in the end

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Well... what sort of heckling would justify telling someone that fifty years ago, he would have been lynched for his comments?

xpost - Ally OTM again.

Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (seventeen years ago) link

People do funny things when they're put on the spot.

Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:06 (seventeen years ago) link

nude spock droppin science

anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I just think that immediate [behavior = identity] judgments are dangerous.

don't you think this is more a case of belief than behavior, though?

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link

did you guys know that, like, words are just words?? i bet i just blew your mind

anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not sure what I'm not getting, but it's definitely something.
A) that's an inappropriate word
Yeh, it's a word often used to offend/insult/belittle, but does that make it unsayable?
B) the majority of us are much more bothered, and have explicitly said so, by the fact that he coupled this word with a straight up reference to lynching?
I don't like that much either, and it was definitely an abuse of stage-power, and mean-spirited. But I can think of at least one reason why he could have said it without being a racist, and am confused by all the people who think it's cast iron without knowing what the heckler said. Are there no racist things that can be said by black people to white people?

what sort of heckling would justify telling someone that fifty years ago, he would have been lynched for his comment
Did he say that, or did he say that fifty years ago, he would have been getting lynched? It's not that he's saying "you'd have got lynched for saying that, back when we whites ruled the world".

stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link

what does he say before he leaves the stage? something like: "words words we still have words" or something. was he trying to be lenny bruce? i think it probably was something like that and it got out of hand and he's just not funny or quick enough to make it work. dude is like 80.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

oh noes what if he uses 'i had to say it so many times because it was improv and i had several minutes left!' as an excuse!

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

WARNING: WE HAVE PASSED THE EVENT HORIZON. BE PREPARED TO REHASH EVERY ILE RACISM DISCUSSION EVER, ON LOOP, AD INFINITUM.

for fuck's sake, people.

elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

"OK guys, I want a suggestion for a racial epiphet you hear everyday..."

dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

coon!

parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

oh wait

parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

EVERYday

parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

isn't motherfucker a 33rd degree mason?

-- Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (evi...), November 20th, 2006 1:00 PM. (sexyDancer) (later) (link)

He's only got 32 degrees, but close enough.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1815/marsellos1zt1.jpg

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

people do not funny things when put on the spot for being not funny, not funny.

jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Are there no racist things that can be said by black people to white people

!!!

there is nothing equivalent to threatening lynching because there was no time in American history where black Americans were in a position to make a regular practice of lynching white Americans. are you fucking kidding me?

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

He probably said it because subconsciously he was trying to give an egomaniac a bit of an inferiority complex.

Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

don't you think this is more a case of belief than behavior, though?

I have no idea what Michael Richards believes.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Whose Lynching Is It, Anyway?

Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, NS, I'd buy your "People do stupid shit" argument if it was just him saying the word once, but to scream it over and over again and couple it with a lynching reference? I don't think that is particularly excusable as "funny things." That is, at best, completely bonkers.

xpost jesus christ, stet, no one said "blacks can't be racist," they're saying "What Michael Richards said is completely racist and unjustified."

Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

did you know black people can be racist too? FACT.

anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

i agree with jaymc. it's dangerous to call kramer a racist on the internet for screaming "YOU'RE A NIGGER!" at some guy nineteen times at the top of his lungs in a video on the internet.

ath (ath), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

"Yeh, I mean, I'm Britishes so clearly don't have yr cultural sensititvies on this one, but fuck me is it always so knee jerk whenever anyone says nigger?"

What the fucking hell? Are you brain-damaged or something? Did you watch the video? He said a hell of a lot more than just that!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

i wonder how long it took for the red light to go on

cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Apparently he's 33 now.

http://www.srmason-sj.org/web/journal-files/Issues/sep03/casalou.htm

Not that I have any idea what that's supposed to signify.

Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:12 (seventeen years ago) link

What Michael Richards said is completely racist and unjustified.

I agree with this, for the record.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:12 (seventeen years ago) link

One of the men who was the object of Richard's tirade was outraged, shouting back "That's un-f***ing called for, ain't necessary."

^^^ i love this part

anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:12 (seventeen years ago) link

a) the idea that this was an improv routine that 'got out of hand' is patently ridiculous
b) perhaps the people who are seeking an explanation for his actions other than that he is a "racist" are trying to do something other than "mitigate" his behavior?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link

I know, seriously. most measured response to racial slurs ever.

xpost

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link

jaymc, for the record, I understand your argument's theory, though I think it has no relevance to the case at hand.

Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link

so you can be an object of someone's tirade as well as subject?

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:14 (seventeen years ago) link

a) the idea that this was an improv routine that 'got out of hand' is patently ridiculous

people were just joking about this right?

deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:14 (seventeen years ago) link

my nitpicking knows no bounds!

2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:14 (seventeen years ago) link

he's not a racist, his lawyer is black!

http://www.1115.org/archives/jackie.jpg

gear (gear), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:14 (seventeen years ago) link

steve, don't bring grammar to this thread, the grammar threads are bad enough without their virus spreading.

Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:15 (seventeen years ago) link

he seems like the sort of secretly bitter racist who occasionally explodes in a fit of i can't be the only one seeing this, these people don't know how to act!!!

jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:15 (seventeen years ago) link

What the fucking hell? Are you brain-damaged or something? Did you watch the video? He said a hell of a lot more than just that!

See, this is what I don't get. Is your experience so limited that you've never seen non-racist people behave this way? I know a guy from Texas who loves black people to death. When that racial transmogrifier was posted on ILX I put his picture through it and sent it to him. He said his dream of finally becoming a black man had come true. Etc. Yet, he will say some of the most racial shit you ever heard right to a black man's face and they will laugh together. He's a blues musician and I'd say 70% of his music is by black artists. But, that doesn't stop him from making chicken jokes while he watches a video of James Brown sweating his ass off.

Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:15 (seventeen years ago) link

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5483/kramburgergg2.jpg

can someone photoshop neil hamburger in there?

ath (ath), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:16 (seventeen years ago) link

jaymc, I know you don't want to discuss this anymore, but saying you don't know what someone believes after they've had an outburst like Richards's=anti-essentialism at the point of absurdity.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:16 (seventeen years ago) link

jaymc, for the record, I understand your argument's theory, though I think it has no relevance to the case at hand.

I don't think it's IRRELEVANT, but it's probably not worth making a big deal about.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I know a guy from Texas who loves black people to death.

deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:16 (seventeen years ago) link

that bobby ganush post is INSANE

deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:17 (seventeen years ago) link


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