Vampire Weekend; Arctic Monkeys of 2008?

That clean guitar sound has always been a signature in Western music, particularly indie... I always thought it was from that jangly 60s stuff, which is where basically every culture took it from.

My favorite VW songs are not the ones where the straight-ahead, eighth-note basslines are most prominent. I like the ska-inflected beats with more syncopation to them - "A-Punk", "Oxford Comma" or "M-79" for instance.

Addendum to that last one: I mean, I'm not convinced that early electric Mbaqanga musicians (Makgona Tsohle Band) were emulating American surf rock sounds, and they certainly weren't psychically fortelling Byrds-style "jangle". That clean, chiming, upbeat sound seems like something organic and distinctly African to me.

It's more than just clean, distortion-free amplification though - I think it's the type of picked melody lines, as distinct from strummed or fingered chords that makes VW's guitar sound African.

Also, the sunny major keys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_note

^^ what O.Nate is saying. I am not under the impression that either African players or indie kids invented clean guitar sounds -- I'm saying there is a particular tone and style that people recognize from various threads of African pop, and many a western guitar player has heard that, been taken with the feel of it, and tried to capture some small aspect of same in his/her own playing

(and obviously any one of you here could immediately tell the difference between an African pop player, a guy playing clean-toned jazz, and an indie kid drawing vague stylistic inspiration from either of the above)

How can a major key be 'sunny'?

As always, that is not a sarcastic or aggressive question - two things that I dislike. I realize that we all use adjectives to describe pop, impressionistically; I have surely used the word 'sunny' myself, and I am not sure that I could explain it if challenged. But it seems odd, actually, to use it about a key. Any major key can presumably take you to a series of minor chords, within that key - would it still be sunny? And can one major chord (G, or D, or whatever) make for a more sunny key than another?

I read the eighth-note link, as best I could - and as a matter of fact, implausibly perhaps, I used to study that kind of thing as a little boy; I could read music and I took theoretical exams. A long time ago, and of course I know less now than I did then. But I don't see much connection between the content of that page and what Nabisco was talking about above.

But I don't see much connection between the content of that page and what Nabisco was talking about above.
-- pinefox

Repeated eighth-note figures, picked/amplified cleanly and matched by the rhythm section, give music propulsive, hypnotic quality. Matched with bright major chords and certain types of melodies & harmonies (beyond my capacity to explain), you get the upbeat, "sunny", chiming sound that VW are borrowing from 60s/70s African pop.

What's some of the best of that African pop, you think? I heard some good stuff on FMU's Gateway to Joy a few years ago, but the names escape me.

I didn't realize that describing a major key as "sunny" would be controversial. Any attempt to describe the way music sounds in metaphorical terms will encounter the same difficulties, I guess. You could also call it "sweet" or even just "pleasant" - it probably has something to do with overtones, but I'm not really technical enough to explain it.

What's some of the best of that African pop, you think?
--burt s.

Repeated eighth-note figures, picked/amplified cleanly and matched by the rhythm section, give music propulsive, hypnotic quality. Matched with bright major chords and certain types of melodies & harmonies (beyond my capacity to explain), you get the upbeat, "sunny", chiming sound that VW are borrowing from 60s/70s African pop.

Quick disagreement on this (if it means what I think it means) -- I'm saying the repeated eighth-note propulsion is something VW are not-really-borrowing from the post-77 history of punk/new-wave/indie/alt-rock/etc., the basic keystone of tons of stuff in this vein forever and ever amen, dum dum DUM dum dum dum DUM dum dum dum DUM eternal

I'm with you, Nabisco. I'm not saying that VW are lifting the entirety of their sound from township music. Velvets/Modern Lovers/Strokes style indie pop is clearly the main inspiration, and I agree that, rythmically and vocally, that's where they're coming from. I'm just talking about maybe 50% of the guitar sound (the "African" part).

I think if people cruise by the iTunes store and check out the King Sunny Ade albums "Juju Music" or "Synchro System" for thirty seconds they will hear "that" guitar sound which is instantly familiar if you dig this style.

There are probably tons of micro-detailed specifics to different regions of Africa and different eras of gear but as a genre-specific sound/style/wayofplaying/technology manifold this one is pretty instantly recognizable.

dum dum DUM dum dum dum DUM dum dum dum DUM
--Nabisco

because everyone's jumping everybody eeeeelse's train

Drew OTM WR2 King Sunny Ade (and the singularity/recognizability of the basic style).

Ha, that's precisely why I found it strange to see (e.g.) Christgau scanning critics about their specific Africa knowledge: I don't doubt that VW have learned about African pop in some detail, but its effect on their sound and their listeners is still that generalized "you know, that smooth, sparkly African guitar sound, from African stuff." (The fact that you can find versions/evidence of it stretching the entire length of sub-Saharan Africa and down to the cape = a good sign of that generalization.)

Haha I used to listen to King Sunny Ade during the year where I worked at the record store next to Columbia

You said that upthread, Nabisco, when you perhaps implied that they heard the music from you.

I agree, anyway, with your belief that VW's knowledge of African music may well be slight or vague. Or at least (as you now say), that their listeners' may well be. I am struck, in these discussions, by how much extraordinary expertise on African music appears. It's odd, because I'm not sure I know anyone who knows anything about African music, save a) an African colleague and b) Tom Ewing.

O.Nate, I agree that songs in major keys often sound sunny, and I went out of my way to say that I often use such terms without knowing what I mean - certainly in a technical sense. I was just asking whether you thought that VW's keys (rather than the riffs, or the songs as a whole) could be 'sunny'. Perhaps they can.

I don't doubt that VW have learned about African pop in some detail
-- nabisco

Does it matter how deep his knowledge is? Or the band's listeners? I mean, I'm a VERY casual, culturally distant fan of yesteryear's African guitar pop. But I still instantly recognized what VW's guitarist was doing and where (in a general sense) he was getting his inspiration from.

they sound like they learned about afropop from yamaha keyboard rhythm presets

most of the afropop stuff is in the guitar; the keybs are more faux-classical

I don't think it matters. But I'd presume that they've probably learned more than they're actually applying to their music, and at this point I'd guess they've made it their business to know a bit about it, even just to avoid looking dumb in interviews.

PF, I was not at all implying that anyone heard African music from me -- hell, these guys might not even have started school yet when I worked there! I just find it funny.

except the bass player, they started Fall '02

Well then they were around -- the point, though, when I originally mentioned that, was decent turnover in the smallish World/Africa section there

lol bell_labs

bellolabs

at this point I'd guess they've made it their business to know a bit about it, even just to avoid looking dumb in interviews.
-- nabisco

The post, "I Hate Blogging," is about a Harlem hiphop gear shop (it's near Marcus Garvey Memorial Park), and offers us a way to understand the surging popularity of Vampire Weekend. Out of all the baggy and sporty items in the hiphop store, this is what amazes Koenig: The jackets that have logos of Ivy League universities. Hanging between two fluted, Doric pillars are jackets for Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia (the school attended by the four members of Vampire Weekend). "What's going on here?" asks Koenig. "Is this Bill Cosby's dream come true? Academic snobbery supplanting 'bling' culture as the pinnacle of prestige for the young hiphop listener? I truly have no idea."

Mudede's Stranger article

Then again, maybe that's been discussed to death. I've been away...

Is The Stranger dude too dumb to understand that the presence of the Ivy League items in the store might be the most interesting item to an Ivy Leaguer writing for Ivy Leaguers, or that the non-Ivy League items in the store (presumably for non-Division-I-AA teams) are more, you know, obvious and not worth comment? No, he just wants to tell himself he's better than the Ivy League dude wiht the blowing-up band. Though he probably doesn't actually know where 'Marcus Garvey Memorial Park' is.

- Haha I just ran out to grab coffee and they were playing this in the cafe
- Bell is funny but also dead on: the way I enjoy these guys' songs is not particularly different from the way I enjoy various blippy synth-pop acts with Casio-preset sounds (see above re: tidiness and simplicity)
- Haha Contenderizer you don't see anything at all interesting in what he's pointing out in that post? It's kinda all the more fascinating coming from someone with the opposite set of blinders (i.e., the luxury of considering such things "academic snobbery")

I would put $$$ on the proposition that bell labs has heard a fraction of the 'afropop' that Ko3nig has

gabbneb - I don't think Stranger dude is suffering from anything like dumbness. I think he's genuinely amazed at what he perceives to be the irony-blindness of VW dude.

nabisco - I do think the original post is interesting. But I also see some discontinuous tension between VW's African appropriations and Koenig's wide-eyed surprise at the idea that black kids might be borrowing Ivy League status symbols. In other words, I empathize with Mudede's distaste, even if I don't exactly share it.

This not to condemn VW weekend or anything.

I think he's genuinely amazed at what he perceives to be the irony-blindness of VW dude.

yeah, I get that; I think that if it isn't faux-naivete, it's just stupidity

I wonder if he's met the former Columbia Daily Spectator editor who does, you know, real reporting for the Stranger

This is a whole other issue, but (a) I'm not entirely convinced Koenig's being irony-blind there, plus (b) I mostly find it fascinating because the blinkers he is definitely wearing are tied VERY closely to half of the reasons people would later have for hating his band

I'm not entirely convinced Koenig's being irony-blind there

the blinkers he is definitely wearing are tied VERY closely to half of the reasons people would later have for hating his band

Anyway, I'd be surprised if "rich kids" complaints had much traction here. The Strokes got a lot of that cuz their privilege seemed incongruous with the rock/punk ethos they superficially projected. But I'd figure VW kind of immunized themselves, A) by not positioning themselves as rockers and, B) by making privilege a big part of their identity.

what is his background?

we've been here before

what are these blinkers, pray tell, nabisco?

I might get jumped on for this, and it's a bit of a vague idea, but the blinders I do think he's wearing would seem to be based on the following (and this is talking strictly socially, leaving aside the issue of money/education -- and note that that particular "leaving aside" is another related blinder here):

- the annoying sense shared by lots of young, middle-class white Americans (including LOADS of ILXors, annoyingly, all the TIME) that the pop-culture / social cachet of black Americans is higher/cooler/better/"realer" than theirs (as often expressed in, e.g., calling things "white" in a pejorative sense)

- a related surprise that anyone with that cultural placement would possibly aspire to one of HIS social signifiers as a "nerdy" college kid who will one day get called a smug preppy dork by people on the internet who'd probably identify the Harlemite as cooler/better/"realer"

- the (basically noble) egalitarianism upper-middle-class people are raised with where they learn and believe that distinctions about whether you went to an Ivy or not are snobbish and unrelated to your intelligence or value as a human being

The main irony in this that interests me is that his blindness/confusion on the issue is based on the EXACT same precepts that animate lots of the people who call him a smug, privileged rich kid! In fact, one would assume that it's overexposure to those arguments -- coming, as they almost always do, from young, middle-class white men -- that could lead someone to walk into a Harlem clothing store and be surprised that there's any social cachet being put on Ivy League paraphernalia.

Clarification: Yes, I'm saying that particular egalitarianism is a blinder, if you walk around thinking of it as a self-evident truth, and not realizing that the egalitarianism is a corrective to the fact that such things still DO matter in ways they probably shouldn't

(Same as if -- by analogy -- you walked around being surprised by racism because you'd been nobly taught to think of all people as equals)

man luckily we didn't have any of these complicated race/class issues at nyu!

barnard? more like BARNYARD OINK OINK AMIRITE

Anyone who 'calls things "white" in a pejorative sense' is an idiot, at best.

the annoying sense shared by lots of young, middle-class white Americans (including LOADS of ILXors, annoyingly, all the TIME) that the pop-culture / social cachet of black Americans is higher/cooler/better/"realer" than theirs

hunh?!