Big & Rich: Album of the Decade?

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the tractors = the country band, chuck. i don't remember the last time i listened to them, but based on memory alone the big & rich reminds me heavily of Owner's Manual from 1994.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 7 June 2004 15:01 (nineteen years ago) link

>>i'm trying to think of other albums that are so completely drenched in two-part harmony...are there other bands in country, or bluegrass, or anywhere doing the same thing?<<

My girlfriend (who says Big & Rich's harmonies in "Rollin'" always remind her of Metallica, of all people): "Drain STH, I think. Abba. I guess they may have more than two parts though."

chuck, Monday, 7 June 2004 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link

okay, so I've only skimmed this thread, so maybe someone else has said this already, but are we sure Big & Rich aren't an Electric Six side project? (This is a good thing) (Incidentally, haven't heard the whole album, but like both singles, especially "Wild West Show." "Save a Horse" also seems to have a lot of Andrew W.K. going on)

Also finally saw the CMT awards on rebroadcast over the weekend. It was really entertaining for the first hour-and-half, then my wife got home and I told her how good it was and then, bam, Rascal Flatts and Keith Urban and other snoozes. I insisted we keep it on until the Gretchen Wilson/Big & Rich thing, though. I wonder what Ray Price thought about multiracial cowgirl hoochie dancers?

But, as energized as I am by the country-as-classic-rock/ country-as-dance-music, genre-hopping stuff Chuck is pumping, I think "Remember When" (that's Alan Jackson) is about the loveliest thing I've heard in a long time.

chris herrington (chris herrington), Monday, 7 June 2004 17:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Re: the Drive-By Truckers discussion (haven't gotten Dirty South yet either, drat). Is country opening up enough that they could be legitimately popular as a country act? On CMT if not radio? I mean, couldn't "Whiskey Girl" be a Mike Cooley song?

chris herrington (chris herrington), Monday, 7 June 2004 18:17 (nineteen years ago) link

>My girlfriend (who says Big & Rich's harmonies in "Rollin'" always remind her of Metallica, of all people): "Drain STH, I think. Abba. I guess they may have more than two parts though."<

Okay, so now she says the harmony intervals in "Rollin" (and apparently a few other Big & Rich songs) are exacly the same intervals used in "Carry On My Wayward Son" by Kansas and parts of "Nothing Else Matters" by Metallica. Which would seem to be some kind of medieval interval, used in European folk music and some bluegrass, but rarely in mainstream country..assuming, as an entirely interval-illiterate person, I am repeating/understanding this right. (Most of the harmonies on Big & Rich's album apparently use the more usual country intervals.) Also, the Bee Gees and other people have apparently have used constant harmonies, so maybe it's not as rare as fact-checking cuz suggests above. Or maybe it is. (I find this topic fascinating, partly because it makes me feel completely stupid and incompetent as a critic who never even notices such details!)

chuck, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Good music continually surprises you even after you think you've caught the gist of it (and usually because somebody calls attention to something you might not have thought of otherwise -- that's precisely what YOUR writing always did for me, sir!)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Finally got the album yesterday -- it's better than I expected, perfect through track 5, and after that I'm still figuring it out. And it's so much more than the (great and significant) gimmick suggested by "Save a Horse" or "Rollin'" (which, having already heard and loved "Wild West Show," I guess shouldn't suprise me.) (right now "Six Feet Town" is my fave)

The suggestion upthread that this isn't totally new is OTM, of course. It seems like Nashville has been building to this for years, but the fact that Horse of a Different color still feels so fresh and like a storming of the gates is a real testament to how good it is. Or something like that.

chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:01 (nineteen years ago) link

>>i was immediately struck by one thing: with the exception of maybe two lines in one verse of one song, the entire album is sung in two-part harmony.

Me too! And it's really beautiful. I hadn't thought medieval, but the Metallica comparison is a good one. The upper part (is that Rich?) is constantly changing his harmonic attack, sometimes in standard thirds, sometimes, um, other stuff, and sometimes going to an octave apart, I guess for extra impact. The album only exists as a tape in my car right now, so I'm not sure, but I think my current favorite is the note on "TON" in "feelin' like TONto."

dr. phil (josh langhoff), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:33 (nineteen years ago) link

I think my current favorite is the note on "TON" in "feelin' like TONto."

My fave is "er" in "take me farther" on Holy Water. It soars.

frankE (frankE), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:37 (nineteen years ago) link

After listening in the car again, good call! Also nice is the last chorus of "Real World," where highvoice hangs around the same note a lot.

And whoever thought anyone'd mention Metallica as vocal harmony forerunners? Fuckin' sellouts!

dr. phil (josh langhoff), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 21:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Also, the Bee Gees and other people have apparently have used constant harmonies, so maybe it's not as rare as fact-checking cuz suggests above. Or maybe it is.

the bee gees use a bit of everything. lots of solo singing, lots of two-part and lots of three-part. they mix it up, like almost all normal harmony bands do. even the classic two-singer bands tend to blend a variety of approaches, from solo verses to call-and-response bridges to close two-part harmonies to lead-line-plus-wordless-backup-vocal part.

the thing that intrigues me about the big & rich album is how relentlessly and obsessively it features one of 'em directly harmonizing with the other on nearly every word of the entire album. they don't switch to call-and-response. they don't take solos (save for a minuscule number of lines, like the first line of the verse in "live this life" and a stray line here and there in "drinkin' 'bout you"). the singularity of the approach is maddening and brilliant.
it's high concept. (or high lonesome concept, if you will.)

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 04:21 (nineteen years ago) link

and i knew the singing in "rollin" reminded me of someone really famous, but i couldn't figure out who it was and it was driving me nuts. i think metallica is totally OTM!

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 04:23 (nineteen years ago) link

The first thing that popped into MY mind on the harmonies was Alice in Chains. Uh. But I've only heared it on the radio a couple times.

Mike Dixon (Mike Dixon), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 05:42 (nineteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
b&r were so so so so so good at cbgbs last night...

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh man, please give some details. I'd been meaning to go but totaly blanked on it.

danh (danh), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Best live show I've seen since I came to New York. The after-show jam Music Mafia jam session at Cutting Room was pretty wacky, as well.

chuck, Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Didn't see you there, though, Yancey! (Rock critics who I DID see there included me, Kelefa Sanneh, Kandia Crazy Horse, Jon Caramanica, Amy Phillips, Richard Gehr, and Will Hermes.)

chuck, Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:52 (nineteen years ago) link

ha! you looked right at me at one point, chuck. all of my hair is chopped off, so you might not have recognized me.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Thanks, I feel a whole lot better about missing it. Any word on if they'll be back? They've got nothing on the website.

danh (danh), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link

anyway, my only complaint is how they insist on constantly introducing cowboy troy (who rapped in 5 languages including russian and mandarin chinese, i think) as "OUR BLACK COWBOY RAPPER," like we wouldn't notice what color he is otherwise. i loved when big kenny (wearing a shirt that said LOVE EVERYBODY) said he and rich are "even closer than brothers," nyuk nyuk. the little speech about how they found out both of their sisters were abused spouses was genuinely moving. and they seemed to work b-52s and donna summer basslines into "love train," unless my ears were playing tricks on me....

chuck, Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Hey you should all hear the Dj Paul & Juicy J country n western song by Lil Wyte called 'Com'n Yo Direction', from his Doubt Me Now cd. It's got a big stupid punch-drunk chorus where they all shout 'WE SOME GOOD OL BOYS!' and a banjo and a cowboy going 'yee-haaaaw!!'. The surped up n screwed version is mental.

scg, Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:09 (nineteen years ago) link

OMG! I've tried in vain to convince my wife to see them on the Tim McGraw tour at the freakin Tweeter Center in Tinley Park. Ain't gonna happen. CBGB's?!?!? Wahhhhhhh! Is it too much to ask they play the Empty Bottle next time they come through Chicago?

frankE (frankE), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:38 (nineteen years ago) link

did you manage to talk to them chuck?

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:51 (nineteen years ago) link

my only complaint is how they insist on constantly introducing cowboy troy (who rapped in 5 languages including russian and mandarin chinese, i think) as "OUR BLACK COWBOY RAPPER," like we wouldn't notice what color he is otherwise.

It's that later they're going to introduce their orange one, then their green one. (I am quite jealous of y'all, in any event.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:57 (nineteen years ago) link

>did you manage to talk to them chuck? <

yeah, them and cowboy troy, and they were all really nice guys, and they kept thanking me for my voice review, and they complimented me on my cowboy shirt and stuff, but we didn't have time to do any kinda in-depth interview about their lifestyle proclivities or anything....

chuck, Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:10 (nineteen years ago) link

they kept thanking me for my voice review

Hey, nice!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, actually big and rich had sent me a really nice handwritten thank you letter in the mail, the week the review came out. They seem convincingly blown away by all the radio and press attention the record's getting, and so did all the biz people they were surrounded with last night -- publicists, A&R types, etc. I don't think anybody expected the record to be this big; lots of people apparently thought radio wouldn't touch the thing. (A few country stations are still holding out, actually, even though the album is at #3 on the country chart and "save a horse" is something like the #18 country single.)

chuck, Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:16 (nineteen years ago) link

i arrived at cbgbs as soon as i could, which was 10:30 pm, and i was walking up third street i saw two guys walking by me in the opposite direction wearing big & rich t-shirts. i figured that was a bad sign, and it was.

so are there any other ny shows, or did they just go right back home, dammit?

and, speaking of dammit, i wish i'd known about that after party. sigh.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:47 (nineteen years ago) link

they're apparently on the road now - philadelphia, then hartford, and so on; i think these are opening spots for tim mcgraw, and probably not club shows, though i might be wrong. (at the cutting room after party, by the way, the saxophonist-assisted piano man who'd opened the cb's show and has a song that sounds like "cold as ice" by foreigner had a bob marley banner hanging from his keyboard, and some skinny white guy did a long freestyle-or-whatever rap throwdown duet with cowboy troy, and some people covered "can't you see" by the marshall tucker band, and some guitar player was wearing an ac/dc t-shirt, and there was some lady painting on an easel in front of the stage, and big and rich did a song or two that aren't on their album. the whole thing was way more jam-band-hippiefied than i would've predicted, but not necessarily in a bad way. the cb's show was a lot better and more fun, but the music mafia thing is where they get loose and less rehearsed, i guess; it was sort of like one long much-improvised song without any real beginning or ending to it.)

chuck, Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:00 (nineteen years ago) link

apparently people like kid rock and bret michaels from poison have been showing up for the music mafia events in nashville; that's where gretchen wilson first made her mark, too, if i'm not mistaken.

chuck, Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:02 (nineteen years ago) link

sounds both scary and fun. thanks for the report!

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:03 (nineteen years ago) link

chuck, ever heard james otto? someone told me he's the only other muzic mafia guy with a record out. never heard of him until yesterday, though.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:04 (nineteen years ago) link

no, not yet, but i've been meaning to check him out....

chuck, Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:08 (nineteen years ago) link

chuck, all this stuff sounds so up your alley i have this wierd suspicion that you must have some how orchestrated the b&r/mafia thing through some secret, Illuminati-funded plot.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm shocked by how random friends with disparate tastes are all asking me if I've heard Big & Rich. When the Wilco nuts, Chuck and my best friend all agree...fuck, I've got to hear this thing.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:15 (nineteen years ago) link

I must say, it's good stuff

Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:16 (nineteen years ago) link

no friends of mine are asking about b & r. in fact, i'm wondering what i'll do if one of them hears me listening to them. i don't know how to explain it -- "it's country and it sounds hokey but some of it is really good!" -- it just takes a leap of faith, really

common_person (common_person), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I actually assumed it was an indie thing like Beachwood Sparks or something until I saw the Voice article!

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:24 (nineteen years ago) link

I enjoy the hokeyness. The album is such a satisfying listening experience. You do have to be open to it though (i think). But you could say that about a lot of stuff.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:26 (nineteen years ago) link

There are always gonna be people who can't listen to rap/metal/country with an open mind/heart.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Anthony, I was once in your position but I've come to see the light. My girl, too. We'd been talking for weeks about seeing this show. Signed up for their sweepstakes and everything and now feel like such an idiot for missing it. Anyway, the record's got a couple of clunkers, but overall, it is so damn fun.

danh (danh), Friday, 25 June 2004 00:47 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
So, just a note to say that this is now the number two country album in the country (behind Gretchen Wilson), and just entered Billboard's top ten pop album chart overall this week. It's apparently getting lots of airplay on *The World Series of Poker* as well. Frank Kogan says he keeps trying to find something else to be his album of the year, since Big & Rich don't often hit him on an *emotional* level per se' (his favorite thing on the album is the "cossack" stuff, as he called it, at end of "Real World"), but to no avail; he just keeps putting their album back on again and again anyway, and besides even with the Courtney Love album he basically only loves two songs, and this one only has a couple tracks he DOESN'T care about. He also says Cowboy Troy is a real good rapper, reminding him that the first rapper to tell people to throw hands in the air like they just don't care was Cowboy of Grandmaster Flash's Furious Five. In other news, Mr. Wonka, who screwed and chopped several '70s metal classics on his *Codeine Rock* CD-R early this year, has just recorded a "Paper-Rollin'" screwed and chopped remix of "Rollin (The Ballad of Big and Rich)," which he has already been in touch with Cowboy Troy about...

chuck, Friday, 16 July 2004 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

re Bee Gees harmonies - check out "New York Mining Disaster"

dave q, Friday, 16 July 2004 23:59 (nineteen years ago) link

In other news, Mr. Wonka, who screwed and chopped several '70s metal classics on his *Codeine Rock* CD-R early this year, has just recorded a "Paper-Rollin'" screwed and chopped remix of "Rollin (The Ballad of Big and Rich)," which he has already been in touch with Cowboy Troy about...

Has this actually vibrated your eardrum, Chuck? I'm intrigued...

As to whether anything has surpassed this as my own album of the year, I can respond in one syllable: no. I've moved from song to song and vibe to vibe on it and still love it. Doesn't get as much play as back in June, but it's still tops.

frankE (frankE), Saturday, 17 July 2004 00:39 (nineteen years ago) link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3892581.stm

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:29 (nineteen years ago) link

They're the Junior Senior of country!

Based on the five tracks I've heard, this seems to be among the most OTM notes on this puppy.

I'll be buying this week.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 17 July 2004 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh and I'm an ex-Nashvillian and I can tell you that the music industry treats even B-list rockers like royalty. Fuck, Kid Rock can own an entire club just by walking in. It's like when fat ugly people vacation as sex tourists in Third World countries so that they can be flattered, buttered up and blown.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 17 July 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link

should read: the music industry THERE ("there" being Nashville) treats even B-list rockers yadda yadda

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 17 July 2004 19:39 (nineteen years ago) link

anthony easton on the new york london paris munich website:

>Big and Rich Save A Horse, Ride a Cowboy.

This is not country--it is on country radio, country music television,the country station on Yahoo Launch, and reviewed as country by Chuck Eddy in the Village Voice. I am glad that it is well liked, that it is getting notice and that it is the Video to Watch according to Yahoo,and the most requested on my local country radio station. The thing is that the whole thing is too camp, too sexy, too artificial, too glam to be country. It shows off too much, its all about the egos of Mr Big and Mr Rich. A a real cowboy doesn't give out 100 dollar bills to random bar patrons, there is a New York reference and no cowboy ever came to NYC--Joe Buck excepted.

This is country. It quotes Willie Nelson who is always automatically country. Not only does Willie come in to play, so do horses and that makes it doubly country (see Beer For My Horses by Toby Keith and MrNelson). It features getting drunk and making out in the back of apick up truck (not fucking, the fucking is implied, no this is just a little touch football). The title is that slightly risque pun that has been done since the beginning. As well, there are the fiddles...country has fiddle solos, nothing else does. Plus it combines sex and salvation--Jesus and Jezebel have been recent development, but they are there--Jason McCoy's Born Again in Dixieland is the only one that comes immediately to mind.

It might be hip hop. The highly self aware samples that are found through out the track and what begins it. (anyways aren't horse samples in, what with the newish noisy Missy Eliot). Then the handing out random money and buying rounds as a way to win games of masculine performance, would fit in quite well. As well, the mention of the phrases Bling Bling, Escalade, Freak Parade and Getting Buzzed. Then there is all the talking in the third person "having as big and Rich time", and some of the fiddle solos are thoroughly electronic.

Looking at the video, and how Big and Rich look like a fagged up Brooks and Dunn--if Brooks and Dunn weren't fagged up enough as it is, plus all of the heavily sexualised weirdness(Drag Queens, Dwarfs,Chorus lines of business suited girls in elaborate garters) , plus how they use the same bridge that Kenny Chesney used for the Young video, which couldn't be more earnest, and this couldn't be less. Maybe it is a conflation of pop and country music trends, a careful, ironic gloss on the nature of where things are, but that care is taken to make sure that it is more fun--its like he is countryfying the same shit that everyone else has been listening to in the last few years (ie Crown vs Kristal, the girls drinking long necks, etc.)

I wonder if this cross pollution is worth doing...country took from the alt boom a new traditionalism in subject matter, but not musically in a way that makes anything interesting. This might be a thumb nose to how fucking boring things have become, how treacly and how poignant. We used to have big summer anthems that came blaring from sexy boys in pick up trucks, and there hasn't been one in a long time-- this one isn't the most usual sense but it might just work until we get something really new tweaked.

Anthony Easton

chuck, Wednesday, 21 July 2004 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...
Finally am hearing this damn thing and so far all that's been described for it is accurate. It's designed to piss off so many people by being so good in different ways! I approve.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:03 (nineteen years ago) link


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