Billy Joel C/D?

the upthread billy joel-frank zappa comparison, on the other hand, is very much off-the-mark (their mutual love for doo-wop and perfectionism notwithstanding). george gershwin and paul whitehead =/= edgard varese and eric dolphy. and zappa's "smugness" isn't as pointless as joel's.

I will give him one dud mark for his Guido/Italian Moolie dialect at the end of "Big Shot". And dud anything after An Innocent Man.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0416/catucci.php

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0416/eddy.php

I don't detest Costello, but he really hasn't ever done much for me. Unlike Joel, I can only name ONE Costello song I ever really liked, and the title won't come to me now. There's black female backup singers in the video. Maybe someone can help me here so I don't have to leave ilx to figure out the name of that damn thing.

Disintegration, on the other hand IS perfect.

I mean, where else are you going to find these sounds all done by the same artist?

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0606,wood,72051,22.html

I'd also like to note that Billy Joel claimed to be a Suede fan in a Rolling Stone article.
-- Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 16 April 2003

WOW! good man. where can i read the article in question i wonder?

i like the use of the word 'claimed'. as if saying you like a particular band still leaves room for a jury's verdict :)

All For Leyna and Sleeping With the Television On are eternal classics.

I live happily without Piano Man and Just the Way You Are, which are about MOR songwriting skills. But the horny, nerdy teen on side two of Glass Houses (I was 14 at the time) . . . that's the real truth about Billy, me, and a lot of other Queens/Long Island boys who'd rather not admit it!

I apparently have never weighed in, so since the opportunity arises: Why such a hatred for songcraft and production values?

(Me in Hongro mode)

If recording enough standards to make for an extremely solid Greastet Hits Vol I & II (that woulda been even solider with a few substitutions) is enough for classic status, then Classic it is.

(Not to mention fucking ATTILA!)

I, always being in Hongro mode, have to say that in terms of songcraft and production values, Billy Joel is only average. He has a long way to go compared to, say, Crowded House or 10cc.

He has a long way to go compared to, say, Crowded House or 10cc.

Or ABBA or KISS or Andy Gibb or INXS or Biz Markie.

he's no elton john either, to take the most obvious example.

be that as it may, here are arguments in favor of billy joel's songwriting craft:

travelin' prayer
new york state of mind
scenes from an italian restaurant
root beer rag (assuming instrumental craft counts as craft)
sometimes a fantasy
sleeping with the television on
don't ask me why
all for leyna
the longest time
tell her about it
a matter of trust
river of dreams
all about soul

and arguments against:

there are a lot.

but, come on, the dude could write and sing songs.

I, always being in Hongro mode,

quote of the day!

I like "Movin' Out" when it plays on the soft rock station!

such thick fingers

the dude could write and sing songs.

Sure, sure. Look, I could add to your list of songs that show off Joel as a good, sometimes inspired songwriter, e.g., Pressure, Allentown, She's Right on Time, among others.

But, as you imply, much of the time he's just coasting or operating on formula. Billy Joel is like the NBA player who almost exclusively takes very high-percentage shots: He has a good shooting percentage, it makes him a desirable player, but not a superstar among other players? Or, to draw another analogy, he's like a director who makes reliable action, hack-ish action movies but is capable of occassionally -- when the mood strikes him -- making a real highbrow film.

But Spoon apparently likes Billy Joel a lot, so maybe he isn't as big a dud as I thought.

Whoa, my grammer was terrible! Posting and parenting apparently don't mix. Off to parenting.

Posting and parenting apparently don't mix
Probably not, but that's how I got my start.

when i hear billy joel, particularly the 80s stuff, it always transports me back to my childhood. "Allentown," "Innocent Man," and "Uptown Girl" are, for that reason, classic.

Even though I know he's kind of schlocky, I have to echo the sentiment that I'm not sure why he is the brunt of so much hatred. He's not great, and he's probably a prick, but that applies to just about everyone in the music industry.

Billy Joel is hard for me to listen to, and though I agree that he's a good technical songwriter and probably a good performer (I've never seen him live), he just seems like a big cornflake to me. He's like the really hard working jingle writer who keeps pushing the importance of melody and a songs that are "timeless" or whatever because he knows that persistence pays off, and even though he's famous and all, I can't help but think of him as kind of a runtish, underdog guy. It's really not a fair criticism, I know, and I'm still not totally sure what it is I hate about him. I don't mind forumla, I just hate the hammy, headfirst dives into such pleasant, middlebrow material. He's a throwback to "classic" songwriting in the worst possible way, the way that reminds me why songwriting didn't stay like that forever.

that said, I like the background harmonies in "It's My Life"