Why does black people never want to rock?

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I wasn't generalizing with that comment, despite the misused modifier: only pointing out that the biggest non-white segment of indie kids tends to be first- or second-generation children of immigrants, particularly Asian (both East and South). (I did not, in fact, actually mean "immigrants.") (Neither did I mean that large proportions of children-of-immigrants like indie, but rather that of indie fans who aren't white, most are etc.)

Unless you meant I was generalizing about the ethnic difference part, in which case I'm not so much asserting that as suggesting it. I know it's partly true for me: growing up with this sense of "difference" being hung around you can surely give you a little nudge toward a musical genre that bills itself as the "different" one.

nabisco, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

well i dont know about geeta but yeah i, at least, meant the difference part you mentioned. i've never even given it a moment's attention - do ethnically different kids like "different" music? - despite having grown up in a pretty conservative, whitebread part of the US. from my own experience, at least, most Asian kids (even east asians) i've known have been really into hip-hop, and the most mainstream variants of it at that. it's inspired more than a few discussions amongst some of my friends and I: do indian/pakistani kids pretend to be black in culture and musical tastes since its the closest thing (cultural group) they can identify with in the mass media? but that's just a majority i'm speaking of...of course there are people who listen to everything (except, admittedly, i have yet to meet a fellow south asian who's even marginally into, er, country)

all this begs me to ask, nabisco: what ethnicity are you? not that it's important

V, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Err Ethiopian.

nabisco, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

got'cha

V, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Die thread, die.
die die
worms
eating
your eyes.

NU-ILM, its the new crack.

Mr Noodles, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

is that your michael gira impression noodles?

Julio Desouza, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

mostly its just my Bruce McDonald impersonation and a random conversation snip from the cubicle farm twisted for my own needs.

Mr noodles, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

that has definetely cleared things up!

Julio Desouza, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

it wont die if you keep bumping it

just a friendly tip, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

we stopped it until you bumped it again. Thanks!

Julio Desouza, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

KITH reference. They were exploring the wonderful benefits of Terriers in the form of a song.
Just noticed a distinct lack of Jack Russel Terriers in the video, maybe Jack Russels don't wanna rawk as hard as other terriers.

Mr Noodles, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ahhh, Bruce McCULLOCH you mean, then? Bruce McDonald is zee film maker!

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

It would be fun seeing a Pakistan Pavement fan though!

I hear Pervez Musharraf's a big fan. He hated "Terror Twilight", but then, didn't everyone?

Dom Passantino, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

McCULLOCH
Well is my face red or what.
Reason #1 why I shouldnt be posting from work without fully disengaging my mind from it to concentrate.

Mr Noodles, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

six months pass...
Well as far as black people not playing rock, maybe you didn't notice that black people started rock. (check out Rocket 88 by Jackie Brenston) See they start something, and then we white boys take it over and they move on and start something new. Rock? originally black music, funk? black. Disco, that one too... Jazz, blues, reggae... hell even country has roots in the blues. the list goes on. And rap? oh don't worry, in a few years black artist will decide to move on and create a new music style, then it'll be all Eminem and Vanilla Ice.

Dan Myers, Friday, 31 January 2003 00:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Had I been attending a mostly-black school on the south side of Chicago, chances are I'd have been slipped a ganked-up NWA tape-dub instead -- and where would I bother hearing indie?

Ha! I was on the N. Side and heard Straight Outta Compton long before the Pixies or Pavement etc. But somehow I ended, lo these many years down the road, posting about Maurice Chevalier on ILX.

This post is not intended to reinforce anyone's determinism, racial or otherwise.

Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 31 January 2003 00:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Mike Gira is a pavement fan?

gaitataxia, Friday, 31 January 2003 01:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

http://www.wichitariverfestival.org/images/hootie.jpg
Man Bad Brains sucks now.

Jonathan Williams (ex machina), Friday, 31 January 2003 01:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

Y'all missing the point - you see people of all colors
at hip-hop shows; in fact, I once heard a complaint that
Jurassic 5 crowds were all young whites and asians.

Why isn't it reciprocal? Why don't black fans pack
Creed shows, for example? Actually, I've never seen a
Creed crowd, but I'm pretty sure that while white
audiences like black music (hip-hop) it's not really
reciprocal. Perhaps I'm wrong tho.

Squirl_Police, Friday, 31 January 2003 03:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Grrrr....This is simultaneously one of the most interesting and frustrating threads I've ever read! I'm a middle-class black guy. My parents were born in the Carribean, I was raised in the 'burbs of Toronto and I fucking love Pavement. Even "Terror Twilight" - yeah, I said it.

During highschool and Uni my walls were (and still are) plastered with pictures of The Pixies, Jane's Addiction, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Bad Brains, Pavement, GBV, NWA, Tribe Called Quest and Public Enemy. It's just music!! Enough with the categories! I have friends from all different backgrounds who get down to all different kinds of tunes. What does hearing indie-rock first have to do with being able to appreciate hip-hop later, or vice-versa?

I've been to rock shows where none of the friends I was with were white and I've been to hip-hop shows where they all were. I thought that I'd heard the last of this crap in high school.

If "Indieholic Anonymous" doubts that black people can rock then I should probably invite him to come to the studio sometime when I'm jamming with some friends. We'll blow his stupid ass through the back wall.

J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Friday, 31 January 2003 08:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah J-Rock!!!!!

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 14:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Wow, this is an interesting and slightly infuriating thread if I've ever seen one...if it's only "infuriating" because of this...

A thread with "black people" and "rock" in the title, and absolutely no mention whatsoevah of THE 'BONE!?! Wow.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 31 January 2003 14:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

No one mentioned Living Colour or Prince, either.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 14:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

Why isn't it reciprocal? Why don't black fans pack Creed shows, for example?

You do realize that there are not equal numbers of black and non-black people in the U.S., don't you?

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 31 January 2003 16:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Uh, I'm guessing white people appreciate funkiness, but black people generally don't like stuff that's NOT funky.

andy, Friday, 31 January 2003 16:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Or possibly black people have taste when it comes to Creed.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 16:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dude, I hate to say it, but I know a black kid who loves Creed.

Is there some sort of impossible-to-avoid-insult-factor for black-people-what-rock similar to the one for white-people-what-rap?

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 31 January 2003 16:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Let's just talk about how cool J-Rock is. Have ya posted here much before? Welcome!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 31 January 2003 17:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

"If "Indieholic Anonymous" doubts that black people can rock then I should probably invite him to come to the studio sometime when I'm jamming with some friends. We'll blow his stupid ass through the back wall."

I don't see how "blowing his stupid ass through the back wall" would convince him of anything. Why don't you just impress him by rocking? Oh, I get it, you're "throwing down"!

matt riedl (veal), Friday, 31 January 2003 17:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

J-Rock, if you're still in Toronto, you must come to our FAPs. (I feel like a recruiter. Jeeze.)

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 31 January 2003 17:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't see how "blowing his stupid ass through the back wall" would convince him of anything

Me neither. I guess that is how they solve their problems in the ghetto.

, Friday, 31 January 2003 20:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

hmmmm...I just don't get it? You're all saying Mike Gira is black and likes pavement, but no one has actually witnessed seeing him at a pavement gig?

WAIT A MINUTE!...I should have kept reading:

------------------------------------------------------------

During highschool and Uni my walls were (and still are) plastered with pictures of The Pixies, Jane's Addiction, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Bad Brains,
Pavement, GBV, NWA, Tribe Called Quest and Public Enemy. It's just music!! Enough with the categories! I have friends from all different
backgrounds who get down to all different kinds of tunes. What does hearing indie-rock first have to do with being able to appreciate hip-hop later, or
vice-versa?

I've been to rock shows where none of the friends I was with were white and I've been to hip-hop shows where they all were. I thought that I'd heard
the last of this crap in high school.

J-Rock
------------------------------------------------------

So what are you saying? Music genres don't necessarily have racial boundaries? Could this also go for some other issues in life? Oh, no, I have to change the filing system...excuse me...

gaitataxia, Friday, 31 January 2003 20:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

gaitataxia, what is your point? I don't understand...

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Actually, Dan, quite a few people have mentioned Living Colour.

Curtis Stephens, Friday, 31 January 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

I appear to have been one of them. Heh heh...

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 20:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

I couldn't believe how idiotic this thread was last July, but now its been exhumed and is getting even dumber.

Its like watching a car wreck. first off you have the moron who started it digging his hole deeper with every word out of his mouth, and then everyone else scrambling to jump in the hole too.

"black people" is not a unit. yet everyone here is talking like you can just say "black people ____________" and not come across as a completely ignorant and uninformed. Do any of you really know anything about the listening patterns and demographics that follow of people outside your immediate area? I really doubt it. I sure don't, so I don't pretend I do.

and matt riedl: I think by "blowing them through the back wall" he meant "rocking."

whatever, I don't even know who here is joking and who here is really just dumb...

tinobeat (tinobeat), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Everyone taking this discussion topic seriously raise their right hand. *raises left hand*)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

Astute choice of appendage.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

"I want you to hit it...hit it and quit it..."

http://images.ibsys.com/2002/0109/1181589.jpg

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 31 January 2003 21:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

i'm a bit embarassed by my original post actually - i'm pretty sure the 'black people invented rock music dontcha know' was tongue-in-cheek...or maybe it was just my catchphrase at the time...

despite that, the topic does merit some serious discussion - because even know we all know that in reality of course rock n' roll is not something that only appeals to people who happen to be caucasian or whatever...but the stereotypes are real too, and perpetuated by a wide range of elements, from MTV to record stores to the consumers themselves

stevem (blueski), Friday, 31 January 2003 22:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

I can't belive that opening statement inspired so much discussion. I mean, if this was around Living Colour's era a discussion of whether black people SHOULD rock would at least be somewhat topical (everyone probably would have agreed Corey Glover shouldn't).

If the opening question was at all valid, the answer I'd have gained from mainstream American comedies is that black would-be rock fans wouldn't want to be surrounded by "a bunch of crazy white people." And white guys would respond "It's true! It's all true! We're sooo lame." And then we'd all dive into Fred Durst's chocolate starfish.

But again, I'm surprised you all, like, acknowledged this dillpickle.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 31 January 2003 22:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

And then we'd all dive into Fred Durst's chocolate starfish.

FIEND.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 31 January 2003 22:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

Everyone's just attacking strawmen and not addressing
the question.


Joe Dawg, Friday, 31 January 2003 23:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

The only place I ever hear about Living Colour currently is on this thread.

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 1 February 2003 02:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Robert Johnson, Charley Patton, Son House, Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, John Lee Hooker. Most rock(rhythmically) is nothing these guys haven't already done.

Chuck Berry and Little Richard. Can't get more rock'n'roll than them.

Jimi Hendrix, ultimate rock guitarist. Though he expressed concern about how brothers saw him.

Arthur Lee. What Jim Morrison wished he could be.

Funkadelic/Eddie Hazel rocked as much as Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin in the day. A real "pysche" band.

Bob Marley listened to Hank Williams Sr. Toots and the Maytals did the definitive version of "Country Road." Don't forget Cymande.

Grandmaster Flash/Kool Herc/Bambaata spun Kraftwerk along with JB.
Don't forget about the Puerto Rican b-boys back in the day. They contributed too.

Prince is from Minnesota.

Pharrel of the N*E*R*D*/Neptunes, arguably the most influential producer in pop music today, has a skater/BMX/punk side and he has a bling side.

Polo Pony, Saturday, 1 February 2003 06:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

dude, you forgot Mother's Finest!

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 1 February 2003 06:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm going to namecheck the Veldt here because no one else has and they need to be namechecked more often.

Chris Barrus (xibalba), Saturday, 1 February 2003 07:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Corey Glover = the Wayne Brady of rock. Saw them 3 times, they...were...NEVER any good. Does anyone remember Xavion?

matt riedl (veal), Saturday, 1 February 2003 18:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

Tinobeat: 1. I was being funny. I knew he meant "rocking". I was pulling his chain. 2. If I DID know about the demographic outside my immediate area (which happens to be populated by a great MANY African-Americans), and it PROVED anything, would you concede or continue to rage on? "Black People" are not a unit, granted. "African-American consumers and musicians", however, ARE units, and quantifiable ones. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, I just don't think it's THAT stupid a thread. I've read a number of interesting viewpoints within it.

matt riedl (veal), Saturday, 1 February 2003 18:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm going to namecheck the Veldt here because no one else has and they need to be namechecked more often.

FUCK YES.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 1 February 2003 21:26 (twenty-one years ago) link


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